# President Chavez vs. the Netherlands **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697 "2009-12-18T01:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kitemaker\_chuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e4f/32.png) [@kitemaker\_chuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitemaker_chuck)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/1 "2009-12-18T01:10:56Z")
I saw in separate news reports from AP and UPI that President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, (at the U.N. Climate Summit in Copenhagen, Denmark), accused the Netherlands of using its islands of Aruba, Curacao and Bonaire (off Venezuela’s Caribbean coast), as bases for United States military forces to launch an attack on Venezuela. President Chavez was quoted in the AP report as saying “Europe should know that the North American empire is filling these islands with weapons, assassins, American intelligence units, and spy planes and war ships.” That sounds like there is quite an array of military forces on these three islands, ready to strike at Venezuela. Has he used recon aircraft of his own, (and possibly his own intelligence agents on the ground) to gather this information and bring back the proof, and if so, when will he reveal this proof at the United Nations? Or was President Chavez just being misinformed by counter-revolutionaries in his own government and military? Could he be making up this immediate foreign threat to draw attention away from his own domestic political problems? ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21825_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/2 "2009-12-18T01:26:31Z")
> [@kitemaker\_chuck](#): > > Could he be making up this immediate foreign threat to draw attention away from his own domestic political problems? This. He seems to think that by making the US “empire” the enemy, his people will rally around him and not think about how their entire country is going to hell in the proverbial handbasket. And it’s weird, because the US is about the only country with the capacity and refineries to process the nasty crude oil from Venezuela. A significant pile of his income comes from the States. Yet he continues to rant and rave, knowing our thirst for oil will keep us from cutting him off. OK, mostly it’s my opinion, but I don’t think I’m too far off. He’s nuts, tho. And power mad. But it’s nothing that couldn’t be cured by, oh, an asteroid falling across the bridge of his nose… ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/3 "2009-12-18T01:30:29Z")
Dear Hugo, Brother, it’s hot down here. Maybe you shouldn’t oughta piss off the Americans too much. Hemp burns on your neck never heal. Love, Saddam ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/4 "2009-12-18T01:55:47Z")
Moved MPSIMS --\> Great Debates ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/5 "2009-12-18T02:01:21Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Dear Hugo, > > Brother, it’s hot down here. Maybe you shouldn’t oughta piss off the Americans too much. Hemp burns on your neck never heal. > > Love, > Saddam what exactly has he done that makes you think he’s going straight to Hell? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/6 "2009-12-18T02:03:49Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > what exactly has he done that makes you think he’s going straight to Hell? Comedic license. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/7 "2009-12-18T02:07:56Z")
> [@kitemaker\_chuck](#): > > I saw in separate news reports from AP and UPI that President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, (at the U.N. Climate Summit in Copenhagen, Denmark), accused the Netherlands of using its islands of Aruba, Curacao and Bonaire (off Venezuela’s Caribbean coast), as bases for United States military forces to launch an attack on Venezuela. > > President Chavez was quoted in the AP report as saying “Europe should know that the North American empire is filling these islands with weapons, assassins, American intelligence units, and spy planes and war ships.” > > That sounds like there is quite an array of military forces on these three islands, ready to strike at Venezuela. > > Has he used recon aircraft of his own, (and possibly his own intelligence agents on the ground) to gather this information and bring back the proof, and if so, when will he reveal this proof at the United Nations? > > Or was President Chavez just being misinformed by counter-revolutionaries in his own government and military? > > Could he be making up this immediate foreign threat to draw attention away from his own domestic political problems? I think he just needs some TLC - a table ladder chair match. Let’s get ready to rumblllllllllllle! I really don’t foresee any invasions of Venezuela any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/8 "2009-12-18T02:09:07Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Comedic license. typically that requires comedy. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/9 "2009-12-18T02:21:48Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > typically that requires comedy. So add 1 count of “Posted lame joke” to my crimes 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/10 "2009-12-18T03:02:40Z")
> [@kitemaker\_chuck](#): > > That sounds like there is quite an array of military forces on these three islands, ready to strike at Venezuela. > > Has he used recon aircraft of his own, (and possibly his own intelligence agents on the ground) to gather this information and bring back the proof, and if so, when will he reveal this proof at the United Nations? > > Or was President Chavez just being misinformed by counter-revolutionaries in his own government and military? > > Could he be making up this immediate foreign threat to draw attention away from his own domestic political problems? The Netherlands Antilles are small enough that you could run a complete reconnaissance using a Cessna 152 and a decent SLR camera in an afternoon. There is no build-up of military on the islands, (they are not large enough to provide a staging area without totally disrupting the local tourist economy–and I have seen no articles in the travel section of the paper warning tourists to avoid NA because the USMC has clogged all the beaches). No one in his government is probably stupid enough to be feeding him ludicrous information. Chavez enjoys making up stuff out of whole cloth. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/11 "2009-12-18T03:07:44Z")
Yep, it’s certainly shocking. Next he’ll be claiming they have WMD and pose an immediate threat. It must be all of 7 years since the CIA last tried to oust him via a coup? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/12 "2009-12-18T03:08:54Z")
Oh, and Chavez is just pretending that his dire warnings about the U.S. and NA (dating to 2006) are coming true. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/13 "2009-12-18T03:11:25Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > It must be all of 7 years since the CIA last tried to oust him via a coup? On that point he might actually have some basis for concern–but certainly not while Obama is in office. Heck, even GWB backed away from poking him with tht stick. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/14 "2009-12-18T03:13:55Z")
“some basis for concern” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/15 "2009-12-18T06:32:27Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > what exactly has he done that makes you think he’s going straight to Hell? Hell is the official sponsor for communist dictators. Surely you’ve seen the commercial. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/16 "2009-12-18T09:36:21Z")
I was under the impression that Chavez was democratically elected and the Venezuela has had a positive development with regards to health care, education and economic growth during his time in power. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/17 "2009-12-18T09:57:36Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > I was under the impression that Chavez was democratically elected and the Venezuela has had a positive development with regards to health care, education and economic growth during his time in power. Well, yes, but that does not exclude the fact that he is acting loony when he talks about real or made up enemies. (One should not forget that he is one of the few elected heads of state to come back after a coup was made against him, good enough to understand why he is paranoid, but not enough to forgive him when he is resorting to stupid paranoia) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/18 "2009-12-18T10:40:48Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > I was under the impression that Chavez was democratically elected and the Venezuela has had a positive development with regards to health care, education and economic growth during his time in power. For a given value of “democratically elected”, yes. Being a member of an opposition party or media outlet in Venezuela is not an ideal career path these days. I’m all for South American politicians thumbing their noses at the US given the long history of American exploitation of the region, but Chavez is a power-hungry demagogue who is not doing his countrymen any favors. I suspect best US policy is to ignore the taunts and wait for his regime to implode on its own, especially if oil prices (and thus the revenues propping up the country) fall. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/19 "2009-12-18T11:32:57Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > For a given value of “democratically elected”, yes. Being a member of an opposition party or media outlet in Venezuela is not an ideal career path these days. If only Venezuela was blessed with the rich choice the US electorate is offered in its high value democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/20 "2009-12-18T12:03:31Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > If only Venezuela was blessed with the rich choice the US electorate is offered in its high value democracy. Alright, **PV** , put down the can opener and step away from the stack of worm cans… 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697.md?page=2)