# President Chavez vs. the Netherlands **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697 "2009-12-18T01:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/41 "2009-12-19T00:40:48Z")
> [@kitemaker\_chuck](#): > > It looks like President Chavez (at the United Nations Climate Summit in Copenhagen, Denmark), made the remark “it still smells like sulfur”, referring to President Obama. > > He must smell sulphur almost everywhere he goes. (Couldn’t we make it smell like methane for him and give him a break?) If he keeps smelled sulfur everywhere he goes, he should maybe check the common denominator. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/42 "2009-12-19T00:58:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Chavez is well on his way to making himself a dictator for life. Question: does Chavez scare you more or less than Berlusconi? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/43 "2009-12-19T00:59:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Question: does Chavez scare you more or less than Berlusconi? About the same to me I guess. Chavez hits my radar more than Berlusconi. I just expect Italy to be corrupt. It’s their culture. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/44 "2009-12-19T01:21:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Question: does Chavez scare you more or less than Berlusconi? Berlusconi is closer to me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/45 "2009-12-19T02:15:03Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Question: does Chavez scare you more or less than Berlusconi? By many factors. Burlusconi is not Italy the way Chavez is Venezuela. I don’t worry about Italy ramping up it’s military and attacking surrounding nations. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/46 "2009-12-19T02:59:18Z")
[Oh, where is Juan Carlos when we need him?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C2%BFPor_qu%C3%A9_no_te_callas%3F) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/47 "2009-12-20T04:14:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > By many factors. Burlusconi is not Italy the way Chavez is Venezuela. I don’t worry about Italy ramping up it’s military and attacking surrounding nations. I’m reminded of the immortal Tom Lehrer’s lyrics: > [@](#): > > Some think the Germans are warlike and mean > but that couldn’t happen again > We taught them a lesson in 1918 > and they’ve hardly bothered us since then! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/48 "2009-12-20T04:43:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m reminded of the immortal Tom Lehrer’s lyrics: Both Italy and Germany are part of NATO. Chavez has been courting Iran and North Korea. It’s like a club for crazy people who are fascinated with nuclear weapons. I don’t see the remotest comparison to Italy. As for your reference to Germany, we went to great lengths to support it after WW-II with the Berlin Airlift which eventually resulted in a free nation. No worries there. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/49 "2009-12-21T14:15:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > While you’re looking up stats why don’t you look up Saddam’s and then research how he dealt with opposition. Are you claiming that Chavez is a dictator and that free elections are not held in Venezuela? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/50 "2009-12-21T15:46:17Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > About the same to me I guess. Chavez hits my radar more than Berlusconi. I just expect Italy to be corrupt. It’s their culture. And it ain’t Venezeula’s?! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/51 "2009-12-21T15:49:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Both Italy and Germany are part of NATO. Chavez has been courting Iran and North Korea. It’s like a club for crazy people who are fascinated with nuclear weapons. > > I don’t see the remotest comparison to Italy. I agree. A demagogue consolidates power in Italy, taking over the media and rendering himself immune from prosecution, possibly with ties to the Sicilian Mafia, jailing journalists who criticize the ruling class. What could possibly go wrong with this scenario? Chavez is playing with Iran and North Korea, sure. So damn what? He’s a bombastic tweaker trying to make himself look important. Fearing him is ridiculous. (And I’m unable to find any records of journalists jailed under Chavez’s rule, unlike Berlusconi’s; help me out here if I’m missing something). ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/52 "2009-12-21T21:12:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And it ain’t Venezeula’s?! Sure, every Latin country. 😉 As for which is scarier, I’ve never heard Berlusconi sabre rattling against the US. So that pretty much clinches it right there. Who is more likely to fund terrorism against the US, Chavez or Berlusconi? Chavez you say? I agree completely. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/53 "2009-12-21T22:42:04Z")
Hang on, how did we make the leap to “terrorism”? Not only that but state-sponsored terrorism, and we all know there’s only one country with a long history of that in the Americas. It’s a bit premature trying to tar Chaves with the same brush as the USA, given there is no suggestion at all from any source - unless you’re going to provide one? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/54 "2009-12-21T23:45:11Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Not only that but state-sponsored terrorism, and we all know there’s only one country with a long history of that in the Americas. Cuba? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/55 "2009-12-22T00:02:35Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Hang on, how did we make the leap to “terrorism”? > > Not only that but state-sponsored terrorism, and we all know there’s only one country with a long history of that in the Americas. > > It’s a bit premature trying to tar Chaves with the same brush as the USA, given there is no suggestion at all from any source - unless you’re going to provide one? The question was, “Who scares you more Chavez or Berlusconi?”, America wasn’t an option, it was multiple choice. Choose B or C. So the obvious answer is C because B doesn’t constantly talk shit about us. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/56 "2009-12-22T00:03:08Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I agree. A demagogue consolidates power in Italy, taking over the media and rendering himself immune from prosecution, possibly with ties to the Sicilian Mafia, jailing journalists who criticize the ruling class. What could possibly go wrong with this scenario? You can make allegations all day long about mafia connections. Prove it. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Chavez is playing with Iran and North Korea, sure. So damn what? He’s a bombastic tweaker trying to make himself look important. Fearing him is ridiculous. (And I’m unable to find any records of journalists jailed under Chavez’s rule, unlike Berlusconi’s; help me out here if I’m missing something). [Chavez arresting opponents](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113513484), [Chavez threatens Honduras](http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-40653020090628), [Chavez threatens Columbia and builds up troops along the border](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/02/world/main3897820.shtml), There is no comparison between Chavez and Burlusconi. Chavez is playing with Iran and North Korea and the “so damn what” is a dictator with nuclear weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/57 "2009-12-22T00:05:35Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Are you claiming that Chavez is a dictator and that free elections are not held in Venezuela? I’m saying he’s paving the way to another Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/58 "2009-12-22T00:20:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There is no comparison between Chavez and Burlusconi. Chavez is playing with Iran and North Korea and the “so damn what” is a dictator with nuclear weapons. The reason Berlusconi bothers me so much is because… Well, imagine president **Rupert Murdoch** as a neighbour. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/59 "2009-12-22T00:51:03Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > The reason Berlusconi bothers me so much is because… Well, imagine president **Rupert Murdoch** as a neighbour. What country are you in? I guess in France or Switzerland Berlusconi is more frightening than Chavez who is more frightening to Colombia. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697/60 "2009-12-22T00:55:05Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > What country are you in? I guess in France or Switzerland Berlusconi is more frightening than Chavez who is more frightening to Colombia. The Netherlands, actually. But Italy is still part of The Union 🙂 ETA: He doesn’t actually bother me _that_ much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-chavez-vs-the-netherlands/521697.md?page=4)