# President fiddles while soldiers burn **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2005, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978 "2005-08-07T10:05:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/21 "2005-08-07T15:16:00Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > I realize that it is **Liberal** ’s intention to pit the President in this Thread, but I would rather discuss the entertainment aspects of the President’s vacation and perhaps critique the proficiency of his fiddle playing. > Could we please have this Thread moved to **Cafe Society**??? What do you think he does for entertainment? Do you suppose that he watches movies? What movies do you think he watches? Speaking of movies, have you seen any movies that you like lately? Personally, I really like movies (although I have to admit that I don’t really go to the theater much anymore because the management (much like, and I’m just free form thinking here, some moderators) really don’t do much to keep a few bad apples from really distracting from the enjoyment of the film. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/22 "2005-08-07T15:16:43Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > What I meant in my posting above, Liberal, is that the president’s vacation is always a working vacation. It’s not time away from all the cares and tasks of his day job. I do realize that. But the soldiers are taking their working vacations in Iraq. Are you honestly blind to the irony of seeking comfort and relief for yourself after you have extended the tours of duty for those in your command? They are there to achieve _his_ goals, and if all he’s going to do is work, then he can vacation in the Situation Room. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/23 "2005-08-07T15:18:36Z")
I don’t care _where_ he does his job, as long as he does it (a vain hope so far). Attacks based on symbolism (such as length of “vacation”) are feeble. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/24 "2005-08-07T15:21:14Z")
I agree with your assessment of this President. But: if the vacation was a vacation per se and not just I’ll be working from home not the white house. It would mean 5 less weeks of stupid decisions, bad appointments and antagonizing world leaders. So either it doesn’t matter or it is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/25 "2005-08-07T15:31:28Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > How much damn brush can one ranch have on it? I’m convinced that they go down there between Bush’s visits and cultivate more brush. [Just like they did for Reagan](http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/reagan/2611681): > [@](#): > > “He will rake leaves from the pool for hours, not understanding that they are being surreptitiously replenished by his Secret Service men,” wrote Morris, who said Reagan had years earlier forgotten the name of his biographer of 14 years. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/26 "2005-08-07T15:32:15Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I agree with your assessment of this President. But: if the vacation was a vacation per se and not just I’ll be working from home not the white house. > It would mean 5 less weeks of stupid decisions, bad appointments and antagonizing world leaders. So either it doesn’t matter or it is a good thing. I can certainly agree with that sentiment. In a sense, the less work he does, the better. But the War President keeps starting wars — on Bin Laden, on terror, on Iraq, on domestic liberty — and he keeps abandoning them. He’s been running away from wars since Vietnam, and he’s doing it again. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/27 "2005-08-07T15:35:19Z")
Well, only 80 hours of PTO carries over at the end of the year, so if he doesn’t use up everything over that, it’s just wasted. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/28 "2005-08-07T15:53:15Z")
Well with 12 posts a day here, plus whatever other forums **Liberal** uses for his daily fix, Dopers could be forgiven for thinking **Liberal** himself has been on vacation for the last five years. A working vacation to be sure. It’s certainly work for anyone who has to read him. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/29 "2005-08-07T15:59:07Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > What do you think he does for entertainment? Do you suppose that he watches movies? What movies do you think he watches? Speaking of movies, have you seen any movies that you like lately? Personally, I really like movies (although I have to admit that I don’t really go to the theater much anymore because the management (much like, and I’m just free form thinking here, some moderators) really don’t do much to keep a few bad apples from really distracting from the enjoyment of the film. Did you know that Bush was the guy in the back of the theater when you saw Terminator 2 yelling, “Bring it on!” ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/30 "2005-08-07T16:09:51Z")
I think someone should forward the OP to _The Daily Show_ – no doubt they’ll come up with a terrific skit for it. In fact, how about we bat around some ideas right here? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/31 "2005-08-07T16:13:03Z")
Well think of it this way. As a libertarian type maybe it would be best if he just went on perma-vacation. A cessation of any policy making is preferable to bad policy making. Let’s expand the vacation to twenty weeks and make sure he relaxes without phone, fax or internet to interrupt his leisure. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/32 "2005-08-07T16:21:16Z")
> [@fruitbat](#): > > Let’s expand the vacation to twenty weeks and make sure he relaxes without phone, fax or internet to interrupt his leisure. So long as Rove, Cheney and Rumsfeld are minding the store, do you really think it will make any difference how long the Chimp-in-Chief stays in Crawford? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/33 "2005-08-07T16:22:04Z")
What a stupid fucking OP. In these days of cell phones and satellites, it makes no difference where that monkey sets his policy. Of all the things about which to Pit Bush, you choose this? ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/34 "2005-08-07T16:57:58Z")
I’m wondering…did FDR take vacations during the Second World War? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/35 "2005-08-07T16:59:31Z")
Just out of interest, **Lib** , would you mind explaining how and why your thinking has changed since last June? In the thread titled [The Lies of Michael Moore](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=263534&page=1&pp=50), discussing Christopher Hitchens’ review of _Fahrenheit 9/11_, you made the following post about presidential vacations, in [post #68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5007396&postcount=68): > [@Liberal](#): > > Regarding presidential vacations, CNN says this: > > > [@](#): > > > > Historically, the presidential vacation is a lot more presidential than it is vacation. The president’s schedule bulges with briefings, meetings and important visitors, so that the rest of us can sleep confident that the president is very much in control. Many presidential visitors wear dark blazers or suits to underline the gravity of the meetings. A president can be all business in an open-necked work shirt. > > [CNN.com - Mark Shields: Presidential vacations -- the Gipper's example - August 22, 2002](http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/08/22/column.shields/) In reviewing Hitchens’ article, i made the comment about “the _totality_ of [Bush’s] vacation images,” noting that they give the impression of a President without too much commitment to doing his job. In response, you said, in [post #77](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5007669&postcount=77): > [@Liberal](#): > > But the part about the “vacations” is still bullshit. Presidents don’t get vacations. What they get is to be someplace they find more comfortable than the White House. Not every president (thankfully) is a Jimmy Carter staring at his desk all day, fretting over the daily White House tennis schedules. Bill Clinton played golf too. And ate grits. Hell, he even took vacations in the Oval Office. Any reality TV show hack can edit together film to make it look like someone is pissing away time on vacation. Moore’s images are nothing but creative editing and do nothing but show his bias. I, in turn, agreed that the stuff about vacations was mostly irrelevant, but asked why Moore shouldn’t be allowed to have some fun at Bush’s expense. To which you responded, in [post #87](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5007908&postcount=87), with: > [@Liberal](#): > > No argument there. His tyranny is sufficient cause to criticize him. There’s no need to make stuff up. Moore’s remarks about percentage of time and so forth are just stupid. For example, 29% of the 42% of so-called vacation time is weekends. It’s just ridiculous. So far, Kerry has taken vacations in Sun Valley and Nantucket since his campaign started, and he’s not even president yet. Plus, those are infamous as retreats for the wealthy and famous, hardly the image he should be projecting to undecideds. And it kind of takes the sting out of all the Halliburton wealth connections about Bush. And in response to someone else regarding the issue of vacations, you said, in [post #89](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5007935&postcount=89): > [@Liberal](#): > > I’m just saying that it’s a stupid thing to be fretting about. Bush has expanded the size and scope of the federal government. He has trampled our civil liberties. He has terrorized innocent citizens with an Attorney General who thinks the Statue of David is obscene. These are the things that Moore should pin on him. These are things that matter. I’m just wondering why, exactly, his vacations are now so important to you? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/36 "2005-08-07T17:03:18Z")
> [@Atreyu](#): > > I’m wondering…did FDR take vacations during the Second World War? Yes, But I can’t find the cites. He vacationed at: Campobello Island , New Brunswick , Canada – Dutch Colonial Revival with 34 rooms. Keep in mind he was American Aristocrat even more than Bush family. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/37 "2005-08-07T17:12:47Z")
Found this Snippet: Roosevelt died in 1945, while on vacation in Georgia. At his death, the entire country was convulsed in mourning. Obviously this was during WWII. [http://www.historycentral.com/Bio/people/fRoosevelt.html](http://www.historycentral.com/Bio/people/fRoosevelt.html) I think he took long vacations even during the war. It was a tradition in the 1800’s for several Presidents to take month long summer vacations on Jersey Shore. His final vacation had started on March 30th and he died April 12th. > **[Delanoye - Daftar Poker Domino BandarQQ Slot Casino Online Terpercaya](http://delanoye.org/)** > > Daftar Poker Domino BandarQQ Slot Casino Online Terpercaya No mention of how long he was planning to stay. I don’t think there will be a good cite on this. It wasn’t really news worthy. My dad says he took long vacations every year like every other president had. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/38 "2005-08-07T17:20:24Z")
I don’t like Bush much if at all, but this is one thing I’ve never been able to get worked up about. It’s August. Congress is on Vacation, there’s not a lot for him to do in Washington. If there’s an emergency, they can easily reach him. I do find it ironic that people who don’t like him are complaining about this. If you don’t like him and what he does, shouldn’t you be happy he’s not doing anything? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/39 "2005-08-07T17:24:55Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Of all the things about which to Pit Bush, you choose this? This appears to be common wisdom among the _calm and reasonable_\*\*\*\*\* critics of Bush; those of us who point out aspects of Mr. Bush’s behavior, demeanor or speaking characteristics are accused of dwelling on “minor irrelevancies” or of “distracting away from the real problems” caused by this Chief Executive. We’re told that the President’s facial expressions, body language and patterns of speech aren’t worth discussing. We’re told that the public posturing of “Mission Accomplished” and “bring 'em on!”, while risible, are just the public face of bad policy decisions which should be the real focus of our arguments. We’re told that the quarter hour of inaction in the Florida classroom on 9/11 should be avoided as a topic by “serious” analysts and partisans. And we’re told that “attacks based on symbolism” are “feeble”. I wonder[ul][li]if, as a self-portrayed strong decision maker, sitting idly and then taking a photo op while waiting for instructions as your country is being attacked, [_]if characterizing millions of war protestors as “focus groups” you shouldn’t pay attention to and asking individuals “Who cares what you think?”,[_]if declaring “Mission Accomplished” at the nominal completion of an invasion preluding a lengthy occupation,[_]if smirking while you explain to a mother whose son has just died enforcing the occupation you’ve ordered that it’s “hard work” for you to deal with her,[_]if, as a vehemently self proclaimed “War President” doing the **hard work** of fighting a grave threat to global democracy, taking more time as vacation than any President in the modern era[/ul]aren’t relevant to the moral character and attention to duty of a PotUS and his administration… what the hell is?[/li] \*\*\*\*\*I mean that without irony. These are level headed and concerned people of disparate and well considered ideologies who all agree on the right approach to public debate. If only the times were as reasonable… ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/40 "2005-08-07T17:44:21Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > What do you think he does for entertainment? Do you suppose that he watches movies? What movies do you think he watches? Speaking of movies, have you seen any movies that you like lately? Personally, I really like movies (although I have to admit that I don’t really go to the theater much anymore because the management (much like, and I’m just free form thinking here, some moderators) really don’t do much to keep a few bad apples from really distracting from the enjoyment of the film. Ka_chiiiing_! Turnabout. Sauce for the goose and all that. You made your point, **Binarydrone**. Don’t whine to us about this being ‘trolling’, **Liberal**. Having a thread wrenched astray by somebody working an agenda is really, _really_ annoying, isn’t it? Now why don’t you just ponder on that for a while. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978.md?page=3)