# President fiddles while soldiers burn **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2005, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978 "2005-08-07T10:05:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/61 "2005-08-08T01:05:16Z")
Your wealth envy sickens me, **jrfranchi**. Money doesn’t grow on trees; the elder Bush’s earned their wealth fair and square and there’s nothing wrong with using it to better their family. **jrfranchi** , I thought it would be obvious but I’ll explicitly state that I don’t believe that one bit; I’m sarcastically using **Liberal** ’s own anti-liberal rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/62 "2005-08-08T01:21:35Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Your wealth envy sickens me, **jrfranchi**. Money doesn’t grow on trees; the elder Bush’s earned their wealth fair and square and there’s nothing wrong with using it to better their family. > > **jrfranchi** , I thought it would be obvious but I’ll explicitly state that I don’t believe that one bit; I’m sarcastically using **Liberal** ’s own anti-liberal rhetoric. Well consider me Whooshed. > [@](#): > > Liberal: Okay. Well, now that you’ve gotten your nut, anything to say about Bush getting ten times the vacation time that soldiers get? By the way Soldiers get 30 days a year leave and it accumulates. The longest Vacation I had in my life was exiting the Navy. It was 30 days. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/63 "2005-08-08T01:36:27Z")
Odd. I thought I’d chosen to participate in a thread by **Liberal** that wasn’t _about_ **Liberal**. And although it’s somewhat amusing to see a thread hijacked to be about **Lib** by people mad at **Lib** for hijacking threads into discussions about **Lib** , and to see that happening despite **Lib** ’s best efforts, I’m really not feeling the schadenfreude I think I’m intended to feel. Just an observation. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/64 "2005-08-08T01:43:25Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > It’s only natural that Bush should reap greater rewards then they. Exactly. Mr. Bush worked _so hard_ to be president. He’s told us himself: “It’s hard work. It’s incredibly hard.” We should all lay off, and accept that rather than a president, we have a ‘Slacker-in-Chief.’ That’s what we voted for. That’s what the republicans want us to have. That’s what America deserves. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/65 "2005-08-08T01:44:03Z")
Yeah, this is a non-starter. He’s doing what all President’s do…they vacation in August for the whole month, pretty much. DC is empty this time of year (of decision-makers, at least) so there’s no reason to be there. Heck, when I was covering the Hill we all had to schedule our vacations in August and the last half of December. At no other time could we have more than one day off. It’s the way things work. It doesn’t really apply so much anymore with modern technology but hey, kids still get summers off to work in the fields, right? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/66 "2005-08-08T01:51:03Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Okay. Well, now that you’ve gotten your nut, anything to say about Bush getting ten times the vacation time that soldiers get? Yes, he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/67 "2005-08-08T01:51:56Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > This appears to be common wisdom among the _calm and reasonable_\*\*\*\*\* critics of Bush; those of us who point out aspects of Mr. Bush’s behavior, demeanor or speaking characteristics are accused of dwelling on “minor irrelevancies” or of “distracting away from the real problems” caused by this Chief Executive. We’re told that the President’s facial expressions, body language and patterns of speech aren’t worth discussing. It all depends on whether one wants to come off sounding like, let’s say, Paul Krugman - or **Reeder**. One can contemplate the effectiveness of either course and express oneself accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/68 "2005-08-08T01:56:20Z")
People, let’s have a little perspective here. Both of Bush’s daughters have had problems related to underage drinking. I think it’s obvious he can fuck things up at home every bit as badly as he can fuck them up in Washington, so why not allow him a little change of scenery? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/69 "2005-08-08T03:20:01Z")
When I heard he was on vacation in August again, I got a scary sense of deja vu. :o ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/70 "2005-08-08T03:32:56Z")
Another Bush vacation thread. Must be August again, different year. My, time flies… Five weeks in Crawford is not a vacation. Call it dereliction of duties if you like, but not a vacation. I’d go to French Riviera. Now, something that really gets me mad. Brush clearing. Even if there was whole national press corps waiting for you to come out and clear the brush, you still won’t do it? When your neighbors sued, you didn’t do it. When your wife left, you didn’t do it. And now, with the whole nation watching, you still won’t? Words fail me. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/71 "2005-08-08T11:48:22Z")
Let’s see, Liberal, the military members who go on leave aren’t constantly in touch with their home base. Those personnel are off doing things and not encumbered with the responsibilities of their office. While they are gone from their unit, they are, in fact as well as in word, on vacation. The President of the United States, on the other hand does not have even one day of his so-called vacation free from that. Your OP is a rant and an asinine one at that. Re: the leave accrual for members of the US military. The maximum number of days leave permitted to be accrued is 60 days unless there is an approval of special leave accrual to go beyond that number of days. If the military member does not have special leave accrual approved and has accumulated more than 60 days, then the excess over 60 days is forfeited at the end of the fiscal year. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/72 "2005-08-08T12:37:55Z")
**Lib** I think you need a vacation. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/73 "2005-08-08T13:12:09Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Re: the leave accrual for members of the US military. The maximum number of days leave permitted to be accrued is 60 days unless there is an approval of special leave accrual to go beyond that number of days. If the military member does not have special leave accrual approved and has accumulated more than 60 days, then the excess over 60 days is forfeited at the end of the fiscal year. What is the accrual cutoff for the C in C? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/74 "2005-08-08T13:46:02Z")
Lib, much as I think this Bush violates everything his father stood for, this is just silly. He’s still doing all his job, just at his normal home. Frankly, I like the idea that it’s harder for him to get stuff done… he can’t pressure congresscritters except by phone. He might do less damage this way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/75 "2005-08-08T14:08:13Z")
For Pity’s sake, **Liberal** , it takes less than ten minutes to read the Constitution and realize it does not specify presidential vacation time. It takes less time than that to remember that the presidency does not have a night shift, that the president short of incapacity) is _always_ the president, and that any piece of real estate upon which s/he happens to be standing is for all intents and purposes the Oval Office, and it takes even less time than that to look at that funny-shaped thing on the kitchen counter that rings occasionally and realize that we live in an age of amazingly efficient telecommunication. It takes a lot more time (years, in fact, but, hey, they’ve been made available to you) to understand that a president can make good choices or bad ones, and that the amount of time he spends sitting in any particular chair has no bearing on the outcome. But for the love of hot cocoa, you seem to be insisting that a man who declared a war against nonexistent WMDs that did _not_ exist, drawing resources away from a terroristic enemy who indisputably _does_ exist, who is simultaneously feeding the nation’s bank account to people so wealthy already that most of us will never even get to _meet_ them, and who fires any government employee who forgets to filter scientific findings through a partisan filter, is somehow blameable not for the things he does on the job but for the things he might not do while resting. It takes almost no time at all to find and read this: > **[President of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States#Presidential_salary_and_benefits)** > > The president of the United States (POTUS)\[A\] is the head of state and head of government of the United States of America. The president directs the executive branch of the federal government and is the commander-in-chief of the United States Armed Forces. > The power of the presidency has grown substantially since its formation, as has the power of the federal government as a whole. While presidential power has ebbed and flowed over time, the presidency has played an increasingly strong ro... Honestly, **Liberal** , it’s time to go open a thread wishing yourself a happy Bhutan Independence Day, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/76 "2005-08-08T14:34:36Z")
Have a heart people, Liberal does also mention the “fucking perma-smirk”, which is just _plenty_ reason for any pitting of Dubya. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/77 "2005-08-08T15:08:02Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > According to an [LP press release](http://www.lp.org/media/article_169.shtml), President Bush has begun a five week — _five week_ — vacation at his Crawford Ranch in Texas. Dude, get a life, will you? Whether he’s in Washington or Crawford, he’s still working. There really isn’t such a thing as a vacation for the President, there’s only a change of scenery. Did you bitch like this whenever Clinton or Carter or Johnson stepped out of the White House for a while? I imagine not. You’re totally blinded by your hatred of Bush, to the point where you’ve become one of the people that could see Bush do CPR on a dying woman and accuse him of copping a cheap feel. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/78 "2005-08-08T15:20:13Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > […]Whether he’s in Washington or Crawford, he’s still working. There really isn’t such a thing as a vacation for the President, there’s only a change of scenery.[…] Unfortunately, for Bush, he _also_ spends most of his time in Washington pretending to clear brush. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/79 "2005-08-08T15:54:34Z")
I believe that the WH has it on good authority that the brush crop in Crawford is in its last throes. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978/80 "2005-08-08T16:18:09Z")
> [@The King of Soup](#): > > For Pity’s sake, **Liberal** , it takes less than ten minutes to read the Constitution and realize it does not specify presidential vacation time. It takes less time than that to remember that the presidency does not have a night shift, that the president short of incapacity) is _always_ the president, and that any piece of real estate upon which s/he happens to be standing is for all intents and purposes the Oval Office, and it takes even less time than that to look at that funny-shaped thing on the kitchen counter that rings occasionally and realize that we live in an age of amazingly efficient telecommunication. It takes a lot more time (years, in fact, but, hey, they’ve been made available to you) to understand that a president can make good choices or bad ones, and that the amount of time he spends sitting in any particular chair has no bearing on the outcome. But for the love of hot cocoa, you seem to be insisting that a man who declared a war against nonexistent WMDs that did _not_ exist, drawing resources away from a terroristic enemy who indisputably _does_ exist, who is simultaneously feeding the nation’s bank account to people so wealthy already that most of us will never even get to _meet_ them, and who fires any government employee who forgets to filter scientific findings through a partisan filter, is somehow blameable not for the things he does on the job but for the things he might not do while resting. It takes almost no time at all to find and read this: > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President\_of\_the\_United\_States#Presidential\_salary\_and\_benefits](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States#Presidential_salary_and_benefits) > > Honestly, **Liberal** , it’s time to go open a thread wishing yourself a happy Bhutan Independence Day, or something. All of what you say is true, and I used to think the same way myself. But as time has passed, two things have become clear: (1) that Bush is determined to stay the course, and that (2) he has no idea what the course is. Your argument is basically that, in the grand scheme of things, this is nothing to get up about, and I once thought the same way. But at some point, giving a benefit of the doubt turns into giving Carte Blanche. This is no longer about whether he can do as much work in one place or the other, but about facing down his mistakes — his _reckless_ mistakes, taking responsibility for what he has done, and getting his soldiers the hell out of the pit he has dug for them. Some of them are on extended tours of duty now. Many of them were not trained for this sort of extended exercise, but are merely guardsmen. Meanwhile, what if the army is needed here on our soil? Or if a friend needs us quickly? The whole lot of them is in that hellhole, and he is not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-fiddles-while-soldiers-burn/315978.md?page=5)