President Jimmy Carter: Success or failure

[Mr.Moto]

I don’t really think Carter has been a very good ex-president either. But that is another debate entirely.

[CBEscapee]

@Mr. Moto

Nope. Bad thing. While I think draft evaders of that era were numerous enough that lenient treatment was a political necessity, the fact remains that they broke the law, and thus ought to have faced some kind of penalty.

A blanket amnesty went way too far. That is why it was so unpopular, especially among those people who did their duty, however unpleasant it turned out to be.

Nixon broke the law and he got pardoned. No strings attached.

[DSYoungEsq]

@CBEscapee

Nixon broke the law and he got pardoned. No strings attached.

Relevant to the discussion of Jimmy Carter and his ability as a president how? :rolleyes:

[Saint_Cad]

@BobLibDem

Back to Carter:
Panama Canal Treaty. A big plus. I think it sent a message to other nations great and small that the United States was interested in treating other nations with dignity and respect. Let’s face it, the Panamanians weren’t given a lot of choice in the original treaty.

Olympic boycott. Plus. The athletes whined, but it was a non-violent way to show violent disapproval.

Camp David. Big Plus. Did it lead to lasting peace in the Middle East? No. But it did demonstrate that progress was possible.

SALT II. Big plus.

Vietnam draft dodger amnesty. Big plus. The war had split the country. Bringing back those opposed to the war was a needed step in the healing process. It was the right thing to do, just as Ford was right to pardon Nixon.

Jimmy Carter was in my opinion the most morally upright person to occupy the Oval Office. I think history will be kind to him.

Well you’re 2 for 5. Camp David and SALT II were major accomplishments although the CD Accords are probably more of a credit to Sadat than Begin or Carter but all 3 were instramental in its signing so lets put it in Carter’s good list.

Panama Canal Treaty - I said earlier that Panama received their independence from Colombia and for this sold us the Canal Zone. Fair exchange I think and from a historical and moral perspective we did not have to give it back. As I remember, giving back the Canal pissed off a lot of Americans, call into question how we would get from one ocean to the other during the next conventional war, and the exchange made the Panamanians happy with the US for about 2 hours.

Olympic Boycott - Way to show the non-political nature of the Olympics, steal the opportunity of a lifetime from our athletes, and lead to the Warsaw Pact boycott of the LA games in 1984. Oh, by the way, did it get the Soviets out of Afghanistan?

Draft Dodgers - If you object to a law, its OK to violate it? Even supporters of civil disobedience (to quote Maddox, “Civil disobedience is still disobedience.”) agree that one should accept the consequences for their actions. Those should have filed for conscientious (sp?) objector status. I disagree with having to pay taxes on things other than pay (e.g. gambling wins, windfalls, inheritances, etc.) and it is an unpopular law - so can I get pardoned for tax evasion please?
I agree that the dodgers should have had to serve an amount of time in service. Actually, I would have said 2 years in the Peace Corps and those who went to Canada would lose their citizenship (Have fun under the Maple Leaf, eh.). Refusal to serve in the Peace Corps would be liable for prosecution.

[BobLibDem]

@SaintCad

Panama Canal Treaty - I said earlier that Panama received their independence from Colombia and for this sold us the Canal Zone. Fair exchange I think and from a historical and moral perspective we did not have to give it back. As I remember, giving back the Canal pissed off a lot of Americans, call into question how we would get from one ocean to the other during the next conventional war, and the exchange made the Panamanians happy with the US for about 2 hours.

You were wrong then and still wrong now. The Canal Zone was ill-gotten booty and giving it back was the morally correct thing to do. I don’t care if it made a lot of Americans angry, it was and is the correct thing to do.

[Saint_Cad]

@BobLibDem

You were wrong then and still wrong now. The Canal Zone was ill-gotten booty and giving it back was the morally correct thing to do. I don’t care if it made a lot of Americans angry, it was and is the correct thing to do.

Why? It was a fair trade for helping Panama gain its independence from Colombia and was purchased with hard currency and many yellow fever deaths. I’ll tell you what, I’ll sell you something and then you give it back to me for free if those sort of deals are “morally correct”.

[Dr.Rieux]

@Ethilrist

Add to your list of The Bad, IMO:

Reinstated Selective Services registration.

Cost him my vote in 1980, because I had to register for the draft.

Me too (I was 20). I voted for Anderson.