# President Modi of India appears to believe that the 21st century began on 1st Jan 2000 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 24, 2017, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197 "2017-12-24T05:21:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/41 "2017-12-25T18:20:13Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > A few days into 2000 I placed a large sandwich board outside Waterstones bookshop in Hampstead, London which read: WE ARE STILL IN THE 20TH CENTURY Honestly, you sound like a cranky old person. I suspect that people you meet in real life treat you as more than a little odd. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/42 "2017-12-25T18:45:19Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Makes sense. Obviously the media needed to brainwash people into not accepting Gregorian numbering in order to- in order to… > > Umm… Nope, my mind can’t cope with this. When has the media needed a “reason” for being wrong? If you haven’t noticed how pervasive journalistic laziness is, you haven’t been paying attention. > [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > I think that he means that for most of us non-religious types, the number 2000 is just the way we count years from an arbitrary point in time, and therefore have no problem with there being a year zero instead of a 1 b.c. Definitions may be arbitrary, but, like the definition of the meter or the kilogram, they _ **are** _ definitions, and you don’t get to make up your own competing ones. The years and centuries of the Common Era that is the basis of our calendar begin at 1 CE, not zero. By definition. tl;dr: this may be an almost humorously trivial issue, but it’s also one constrained by definitions and not factually ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/43 "2017-12-25T19:34:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > When has the media needed a “reason” for being wrong? If you haven’t noticed how pervasive journalistic laziness is, you haven’t been paying attention. Maybe you should read the post I was replying to. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Definitions may be arbitrary, but, like the definition of the meter or the kilogram, they _ **are** _ definitions, and you don’t get to make up your own competing ones. The years and centuries of the Common Era that is the basis of our calendar begin at 1 CE, not zero. By definition. > > tl;dr: this may be an almost humorously trivial issue, but it’s also one constrained by definitions and not factually ambiguous. Of course I get to make my own definitions. People do that all the time. That’s why there are so many standards. You want to celebrate the 2000th year of the Gregorian calendar in 2001? Be my guest. I’ll celebrate the moment the first numeral of the calendar goes from a 1 to a 2 and call it a new millenium, because I couldn’t care less about the completely unscientific, illogical reason the calendar is based on to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/44 "2017-12-25T20:06:28Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Maybe you should read the post I was replying to. I did. > [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Of course I get to make my own definitions. People do that all the time. That’s why there are so many standards. No. Authoritative standards bodies may get to define alternative standards. You don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/45 "2017-12-25T20:31:45Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I did. You did. The post where SeniorCitizen007 literally said that, and I quote:\> _“The idea that the media would deliberately play mind games with the populace … “brainwash” people into believing something tbat is not true … is more than people’s minds could cope with.”_ That post. I see. > [@wolfpup](#): > > No. Authoritative standards bodies may get to define alternative standards. You don’t. Well, then call the ISO police and tell them to come and get me. This bad boy won’t adhere to a bad standard and i don’t care how much of a cool rebel living on the edge that makes me. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/46 "2017-12-25T20:38:58Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I’m getting a little fuzzy here. Is it the contention of some people in this thread that the 21st century actually started in 2001, rather than the year 2000? If so, how does that work, exactly? Simple. If you count 100 items, what number do you start with? 1, not 0. What number do you stop on? 100. Count the years in a century. Begin with the year that ends in 01 and stop when you get to 00. The first century was from 1 CE to 100 CE. 1901 to 2000 was the 20th century. The 21st century began in 2001 and will end with the year 2100. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/47 "2017-12-25T20:46:28Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > You want to celebrate the 2000th year of the Gregorian calendar in 2001? Be my guest. I’ll celebrate the moment the first numeral of the calendar goes from a 1 to a 2 and call it a new millenium, because I couldn’t care less about the completely unscientific, illogical reason the calendar is based on to begin with. Nobody’s saying 2001 is the 2000th year of the calendar. Of course, it was 2000. But the year 2000 is the end of the second millenium, not the start of the third one. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/48 "2017-12-25T20:48:27Z")
I took the “brainwash” stuff as pure hyperbole, and took his post to realistically mean that the media frequently set the trend of many popular opinions, and often do it without appropriate fact-checking. And this is true. Even supposed “science writers” often don’t know squat about science and either just regurgitate what they’re given and/or manage to get it wrong. And I know this from personal experience. Many (not all) science writers are writers first, journalists second, and scientists not at all. A goodly portion of them seem to be aspiring poets. Seriously. And what could be more poetic than the declaration of a new millennium when the venerable thousands digit of the year changes? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/49 "2017-12-25T20:54:16Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > A few days into 2000 I placed a large sandwich board outside Waterstones bookshop in Hampstead, London which read: WE ARE STILL IN THE 20TH CENTURY … and watched how people reacted to it. Well, it gets you out and about I suppose. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/50 "2017-12-25T21:25:24Z")
> **[When is the beginning of the new millennium? Some say it is January 1, 2000...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-is-the-beginning-of/)** > > Scientific American is the essential guide to the most awe-inspiring advances in science and technology, explaining how they change our understanding of the world and shape our lives. When is the beginning of the new millennium? Some say it is January 1, 2000 and others January 1, 2001? Who is correct? ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/51 "2017-12-25T21:39:09Z")
Maybe if the media could get busy convincing the world’s populace that E=MC2 has a different meaning to what the scientists say it has then all these nuclear weapons spread around the planet will no longer work and we’ll all be safe from annihilation? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/52 "2017-12-25T21:49:36Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Sure, in the unusual sense of the word “practical” meaning “wrong” well the first definition of “practical” that i looked up is… > [@](#): > > of or concerned with the actual doing or use of something rather than with theory and ideas. which is exactly the point I was making, so not an “unusual” sense of the word at all. > [@](#): > > it’s a symbolic milestone but it is NOT, in fact, the 21st century of the Common Era in the Julian calendar, a fact which can be determined by the simple expedient of counting. Doesn’t matter. it is a battle long since lost and trying to shoehorn a mathematically “correct” definition into society will not make things better or impress the cool kids. > [@](#): > > Actually, no. It depends. If we’re looking at an era as defined by social and cultural events, “the sixties” was a social phenomenon that started around 1963 or 64 and lasted well into the 70s. A person born in 1960 was born in the sixties, a person born in 1970 was born in the seventies. That is the simple understanding that we all already have. I’m tempted to say that we should extend that thinking to millennia and centuries but I’m sure you know that most of us already have. Common usage has won. > [@](#): > > Of course if one is talking about calendar years, and going through history on a year-by-year basis, then “the sixties” corresponds to calendar numbers _ **by definition** _, which is not very interesting and is not the argument here. But again, if we’re counting decades, or counting centuries, then we have to be conscious of starting points or we’re going to be mathematically, factually wrong. We will not be wrong if you accept the current common usage. Seeing as we cannot be absolutely certain what year represents the real birth of Jesus we may as well simply accept a nominal year 0 and allow all calculations from that point to follow the logic of of 0-999 first millennium, 1000-1999 second millennium and so on and so on. Any calculations that require knowing the specific number of years between event can simply take one figure from the other. Then from here on in all discussions of this type will be simplified and in line with the understanding and practical application of 99% of the human race. You will of course lose one of your cherished points of pedantry but I’m sure you’ll get over it. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/53 "2017-12-25T21:50:53Z")
Facts are _not_ decided based on majority opinions! E.g., the majority opinion of college educated Americans is that the seasons are caused by the Earth being closer/nearer to the Sun! (There’s an infamous NSF film asking Harvard grads about this.) So it is with 2001 being the start of the millennium. It’s a _fact_, not something we vote on. If are unaware that this is a fact or you don’t understand why, get yourself educated. Don’t just gripe about what you _think_. You’re thinking wrong. This doesn’t help you “argument” one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/54 "2017-12-25T21:54:53Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Simple. If you count 100 items, what number do you start with? 1, not 0. when you start a stopwatch ticking, what does the initial display read? ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/55 "2017-12-25T21:55:47Z")
1st Jan 2019 Picture a studio audience consisting of equal numbers of people born on 1st Jan 2000 and 1st Jan 2001 listening to a scientist and a non-scientist debating as to which group were the first born in the 21st century to reach adulthood and be able to vote. Which group is more likely to “become distressed” by having their beliefs about themselves challenged? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/56 "2017-12-25T21:59:14Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > So it is with 2001 being the start of the millennium. It’s a _fact_, not something we vote on. Are you saying that 1st Jan 2001 is exactly 2000 years since the birth of jesus\> is it that sort of fact? ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/57 "2017-12-25T22:02:02Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Facts are _not_ decided based on majority opinions! > > E.g., the majority opinion of college educated Americans is that the seasons are caused by the Earth being closer/nearer to the Sun! (There’s an infamous NSF film asking Harvard grads about this.) > > So it is with 2001 being the start of the millennium. It’s a _fact_, not something we vote on. > > If are unaware that this is a fact or you don’t understand why, get yourself educated. Don’t just gripe about what you _think_. You’re thinking wrong. This doesn’t help you “argument” one bit. The Gregorian calendar, unless you are a Christian, is not a “fact”. Not in the sense of it being some sort of indisputable scientific fact. It’s a measuring system, and a flawed one at that. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/58 "2017-12-25T22:06:15Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > when you start a stopwatch ticking, what does the initial display read? How many seconds have passed when the stopwatch reads 00:00? You don’t count until the first second (or fraction thereof) has passed. You don’t count 0 when you’re counting anything. It boggles my mind that some people can’t grasp a concept that I learned in elementary school. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/59 "2017-12-25T22:12:16Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > We will not be wrong if you accept the current common usage. Seeing as we cannot be absolutely certain what year represents the real birth of Jesus we may as well simply accept a nominal year 0 and allow all calculations from that point to follow the logic of of 0-999 first millennium, 1000-1999 second millennium and so on and so on. Except your logic fails in that there was no year “0”. And with that, I’m through going down this rabbit hole. If we haven’t eliminated ignorance in 45 years, it’s a downhill battle. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197/60 "2017-12-25T22:15:41Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Seeing as we cannot be absolutely certain what year represents the real birth of Jesus we may as well simply accept a nominal year 0 and allow all calculations from that point to follow the logic of of 0-999 first millennium, 1000-1999 second millennium and so on and so on. But that is why there’s an argument at all: There is no year 0 in the Christian-Julian or Gregorian calendars, it goes from 1 BC(E) to 1 CE/AD. (Because the guy who set the arbitrary start date -and got it wrong- did not know of zero or negatives as we know them — so he had year the first before Christ followed by year the first of the Lord). Pope Gregory came along late enough in the game he could have redefined 1 BC-Julian as a zero year that would belong to BOTH the first century BC and AD and everything before would be adjusted forward by one arbitrary number. But he had enough work getting people to agree to adjust the calendar by a mere 10 days. And people would be arguing to this day that you cannot have a year that counts for both categories. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-modi-of-india-appears-to-believe-that-the-21st-century-began-on-1st-jan-2000/805197.md?page=4)