# President Obama: The First Step in Negotiating Is Not "Bend Over" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 4, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518 "2010-11-04T22:35:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/21 "2010-11-05T17:45:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The problem with your analysis is that self-declared liberals only make up about 20% of the electorate. Self-described conservatives make up over 40% of the electorate. > > \ > > You liberals need to wake up and realize that you aren’t a majority, and you aren’t even a large minority. You’re 1/5 of the country, and you’re simply not going to get everything you want. America is a center-right country. Your numbers seem to track with this Gallup Poll (below) but then further down that same page the numbers seem to switch, then switch again (on independents). I confess I am not exactly sure what this means. > [@](#): > > Thus far in 2009, Gallup has found an average of 36% of Americans considering themselves Democratic, 28% Republican, and 37% independent. When independents are pressed to say which party they lean toward, 51% of Americans identify as Democrats, 39% as Republicans, and only 9% as pure independents. > > Ideological tendencies by leaned party affiliation are very similar to those of straight partisan groups. However, it is worth noting the views of pure independents – a group usually too small to analyze in individual surveys but potentially important in deciding elections. Exactly half of pure independents describe their views as moderate, 30% say they are conservative, and 17% liberal. > > SOURCE: ["Conservatives" Are Single-Largest Ideological Group](http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/22 "2010-11-05T17:55:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Of course, before the election Obama’s idea of negotiating was to saying things like, > > “Here’s the bottom line: I WON.” > “Time for Republicans to ride in the back of the bus.” > “Time for those who made the mess to get out of the way and let the rest of us lead.” > “Hispanics: Get out there and punish your enemies.” Since this is in GD, can I please have a cite for Obama saying these things please? Or even saying things “like” these? Feel free to find something and then spin it as hard as you can to make it fit one of these completely ridiculous memes. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/23 "2010-11-05T17:59:50Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > In his speech last night President Obama signalled willingness to consider letting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy continue, which would cost the government $700 billion dollars. I love the way you phrased that. It’s not the government’s money so it ain’t costing them shit. This is the major problem with the left. Many consider all of our wealth the possession of the government and we should be happy with what we are allowed to have. The people have spoken. Elections have consequences. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/24 "2010-11-05T18:01:58Z")
Want to work on the deficit? Start with ending the Bush tax cuts for everybody. It will trim the deficit, 25 to 30 percent. That is a good thing. Tax cuts to the rich do not create jobs. They have been in place for a decade and where are the jobs. They never have created jobs. It justs sounds good to the poor who accept trickle down. It sounds good to the wealthy who get even more money. But it is false and stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/25 "2010-11-05T18:10:59Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > The people have spoken. Elections have consequences. Sadly, one of the consequences will be an additional \*\* $3.4 trillion\*\* added to the national debt in the 2009 to 2019 period, due to extensions of these tax cuts ALONE. Did the people vote to increase the deficit? ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/26 "2010-11-05T18:11:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Since this is in GD, can I please have a cite for Obama saying these things please? > > Or even saying things “like” these? > > Feel free to find something and then spin it as hard as you can to make it fit one of these completely ridiculous memes. Actually, he said “back of the car” - Jon Stewart made a stink about it earlier this week. Though, honestly, that’s still closer to having an actual racial connotation than the word “niggardly” which routinely gets politicians thrown under the bus. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/27 "2010-11-05T18:26:57Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > I love the way you phrased that. It’s not the government’s money so it ain’t costing them shit. This is the major problem with the left. Many consider all of our wealth the possession of the government and we should be happy with what we are allowed to have. > > The people have spoken. Elections have consequences. Yes they do, and Obama is still President…elected, last I checked. And the Dems still control the Senate…elected, last I checked. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/28 "2010-11-05T18:53:59Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Sadly, one of the consequences will be an additional \*\* $3.4 trillion\*\* added to the national debt in the 2009 to 2019 period, due to extensions of these tax cuts ALONE. > > Did the people vote to increase the deficit? Nope. They voted to decrease the size of government. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/29 "2010-11-05T18:56:59Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Yes they do, and Obama is still President…elected, last I checked. And the Dems still control the Senate…elected, last I checked. Oh, I know. We have been dealing with the consequences of those elections for the past few years. Thankfully the worm is beginning to turn. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/30 "2010-11-05T19:44:50Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Nope. They voted to decrease the size of government. And adding to the deficit is going to accomplish that how? Pro tip: If you **entirely** eliminate the Depts of Agriculture, Education, Energy, Commerce, Housing & Urban Development and Transportation, you would save $441 billion/year. This would still not be enough to offset the money lost through the tax cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/31 "2010-11-05T19:48:50Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Since this is in GD, can I please have a cite for Obama saying these things please? > > Or even saying things “like” these? > > Feel free to find something and then spin it as hard as you can to make it fit one of these completely ridiculous memes. No spinning required: [Cite 1](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/01/23/obama-to-gop-i-won/): > [@](#): > > The top congressional leaders from both parties gathered at the White House for a working discussion over the shape and size of President Barack Obama’s economic stimulus plan. The meeting was designed to promote bipartisanship. > > But Obama showed that in an ideological debate, he’s not averse to using a jab. > > Challenged by one Republican senator over the contents of the package, the new president, according to participants, replied: “I won.” [Cite for 2 and 3](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/25/obama-tells-republicans-sit/): > [@](#): > > **Obama Tells Republicans to ‘Sit in Back’** > … > [Obama] said Republicans had driven the economy into a ditch and then stood by and criticized while Democrats pulled it out. Now that progress has been made, he said, “we can’t have special interests sitting shotgun. We gotta have middle class families up in front. We don’t mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.” [Cite 4](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/25/in-appeal-to-hispanics-obama-promises-to-push-immigration-reform/): > [@](#): > > In a radio interview that aired on Univision on Monday, Mr. Obama sought to assure Hispanics that he would push an immigration overhaul after the midterm elections, even though he has not been able to attract Republican support. > > “If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re going to punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s going to be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.” Next time, you might want to do a little basic research yourself before calling something “completely ridiculous”. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/32 "2010-11-05T19:56:23Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Yes they do, and Obama is still President…elected, last I checked. And the Dems still control the Senate…elected, last I checked. That’s true. And they can still try to push through whatever they want if they have the vote. But then they’ll have to live with the consequences. The hard fact is that if the entire Senate had been up for re-election, the Democrats would have lost the majority, and by a whopping margin. And the major signature initiatives of the Democrats are polling terribly among the people as a whole. If you think you’re right, maybe the focus should be on trying to educate the American people on the merits of your case, to win them over. Or, you could just wait for Republicans to screw up. I assign a pretty high probability to that. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/33 "2010-11-05T20:01:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > No spinning required: > > [Cite 1](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/01/23/obama-to-gop-i-won/): > > [Cite for 2 and 3](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/25/obama-tells-republicans-sit/): > [Cite 4](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/25/in-appeal-to-hispanics-obama-promises-to-push-immigration-reform/): > Next time, you might want to do a little basic research yourself before calling something “completely ridiculous”. Wow, thanks for opening my eyes to what a viscous partisan Obama is. I’m astounded that he was not lambasted more for these open attacks against the opposition, which clearly show that his is not willing to work with them in any capacity. This really puts his rolling over on tax cuts, healthcare, and gay rights issues in perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Buy\_All\_Means](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@Buy\_All\_Means](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buy_All_Means)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/34 "2010-11-05T20:17:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > No spinning required: > > [Cite 1](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/01/23/obama-to-gop-i-won/): Is this a joke? Where do you get this narrative that Obama was somehow forceful in claiming that he had a mandate? You really believe this? The loudest complaint from the left has been that he was not forceful enough in pushing his policies and that he is letting the Republicans run all over him by pretending to want bipartisanship and then slapping Obama’s hand when he offers it. Rahm Emanuel’s major complaint about Obama’s approach to the stimulus was that he [was far too focused on bipartisanship](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123449249590080699.html). > [@](#): > > Mr. Emanuel owned up to one mistake: message. What he called the outside game slipped away from the White House last week, when the president and others stressed bipartisanship rather than job creation as they moved toward passing the measure. White House officials allowed an insatiable desire in Washington for bipartisanship to cloud the economic message a point coming clear in a study being conducted on what went wrong and what went right with the package, he said. But good job in throwing those quotes up there and expecting to be called out on them so you could post them. Thing is, you can’t take 4 sentences out of the Odyssey and call it an epic. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/35 "2010-11-05T20:18:05Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Oh, I know. We have been dealing with the consequences of those elections for the past few years. Thankfully the worm is beginning to turn. Which consequences are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/36 "2010-11-05T20:24:57Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And adding to the deficit is going to accomplish that how? > > Pro tip: If you **entirely** eliminate the Depts of Agriculture, Education, Energy, Commerce, Housing & Urban Development and Transportation, you would save $441 billion/year. This would still not be enough to offset the money lost through the tax cuts. That sounds like a good start! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/37 "2010-11-05T20:30:12Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > That sounds like a good start! Indeed! It would soon be Libertopia! ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/38 "2010-11-05T20:34:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Indeed! It would soon be Libertopia! I’m sorry…I just can’t take you seriously after **Sam Stone** handed your ass to you on such an easy one. If I were you I would try reading a newspaper or using google. Or, at the very least, ask politely for a cite so you don’t come away looking like a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Buy\_All\_Means](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@Buy\_All\_Means](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buy_All_Means)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/39 "2010-11-05T20:37:35Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And the major signature initiatives of the Democrats are polling terribly among the people as a whole. > > If you think you’re right, maybe the focus should be on trying to educate the American people on the merits of your case, to win them over. I wonder if this has anything to do with [$100+ million](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/10/foes_ran_100_million_in_ads_ag.html) being spent on ads against the bill _after_ it was passed? Or the chamber of commerce [still running ads against it](http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/17/chamber-of-commerce-lobbies-against-health-care-bill/)? Or maybe the [hundreds of millions](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/01/lobbyists-millions-obama-healthcare-reform) spent against it before it was passed? Or Fox News and the rest of the conservative media’s constant drumbeat against it? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518/40 "2010-11-05T20:40:21Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Wow, thanks for opening my eyes to what a viscous partisan Obama is. No, what I opened your eyes to is that he said exactly what I said he said, and which you characterized as “completely ridiculous” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-the-first-step-in-negotiating-is-not-bend-over/559518.md?page=3)