# President Obama warns of progressive "purity" and "circular firing squads" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 17, 2019, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662 "2019-04-17T06:04:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/121 "2019-04-23T06:44:12Z")
Just one more respectful question, trying to understand XT’s point of view: Assume that, as the Democratic primary in your State nears, the field has narrowed to two candidates. You believe that one would have a far better chance than the other of beating Trump. The laws in your State allow you to vote in the Democratic primary without having to register as a Democrat. Do you participate in the primary in order to maximize the chance of Trump losing, or not, and why? Hell, imagine that Trump and Mitt Romney are running neck-and-neck in the Republican race, and you likewise have the option of voting in the Republican primary. Would you do so? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/122 "2019-04-23T06:56:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If the Party had more money to spend on the Senate races… > Better?:dubious: > I have explained several times. Wasting time & energy in infighting among Dems rather than beatings Republicans. So, if all the money that was donated to AOC had been sent to, say, Claire McCaskill, instead, things might have been different? Well, AOC supporters aren’t going to give that money to Claire McCaskill if they’re not giving it to AOC. They might donate it to refugee aid or spend it on weed, but I guarantee you donating to corporate-backed politicians isn’t on their list of discretionary spending options. So that’s not any net loss of money for moderate Senate campaigns. And I’m not going to look it up right now, but I’m guessing AOC’s primary campaign budget was insignificant relative to any establishment Senate campaign. So, yep, still not seeing your point about how replacing lame Democrats with good ones hurts the Democratic Party. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/123 "2019-04-23T06:59:45Z")
And, getting to the OP: I have tremendous respect for Obama, but his legacy was severely marred by his support for the Democratic establishment’s efforts to anoint Clinton as the nominee long before voting began. That…didn’t work out well. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/124 "2019-04-23T07:02:30Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Oh, I see plenty of Bernie Sanders followers with their knives out for Beto. They accuse him of being in the pocket of Big Oil, even though he constantly talks about getting off fossil fuels within the next ten years. How much money has Beto taken from oil companies? (Serious question, I have no idea). If it’s a nontrivial amount, that’s a legitimate criticism, regardless of what he might “constantly talk” about. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/125 "2019-04-23T07:11:16Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Bernie Sanders himself [attacked ThinkProgress the other day](https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-blasts-liberal-think-tank-cap-in-scathing-letter-this-counterproductive-negative-campaigning-needs-to-stop) for reasons that seemed pretty trivial to me. > Seems like a reasonable thing to point out, yet thin-skinned Bernie called it a bad-faith smear. Well, did he _consistently_ use “millionaires and billionaires” in his stump speeches before he himself was outed as a millionaire, and then switched to consistently using only “billionaires”? If so, that’s a reasonable thing to point out, maybe, if you have a deadline and no real news to write about. Or has he always used the terms interchangeably, and they just cherry-picked some videos to take a cheap shot by implying that he had shifted? If so, that’s a bad-faith smear. I will note, per your linked article, that Sanders’ outrage was at least not entirely self-serving: > [@Bernie Sanders](#): > > “I and other Democratic candidates are running campaigns based on principles and ideas and not engaging in mudslinging or personal attacks on each other,” he wrote. “Meanwhile, the Center for American Progress is using its resources to smear Senator Booker, Senator Warren and myself, among others. This is hardly the way to build unity, or to win the general election.” ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/126 "2019-04-23T07:39:51Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > How much money has Beto taken from oil companies? Zero. At least knowingly. Unless he’s willing to go to prison. There were some complaints last year that workers in the industry were the largest source of donations, but it’s the largest industry in Texas, so that will be true for pretty much any candidate in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/127 "2019-04-23T07:57:57Z")
You are under the impression that it is illegal for corporations to donate to political candidates? That is not my understanding. Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/128 "2019-04-23T11:39:50Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > You are under the impression that it is illegal for corporations to donate to political candidates? That is not my understanding. Please explain. I think he’s saying that unless he took some secret cash and didn’t report it - that would be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/129 "2019-04-23T14:10:14Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > So, if all the money that was donated to AOC had been sent to, say, Claire McCaskill, instead, things might have been different? Well, AOC supporters aren’t going to give that money to Claire McCaskill if they’re not giving it to AOC. They might donate it to refugee aid or spend it on weed, but I guarantee you donating to corporate-backed politicians isn’t on their list of discretionary spending options. So that’s not any net loss of money for moderate Senate campaigns. And I’m not going to look it up right now, but I’m guessing AOC’s primary campaign budget was insignificant relative to any establishment Senate campaign. > > So, yep, still not seeing your point about how replacing lame Democrats with good ones hurts the Democratic Party. How about her opponent? See, I dont see those as “lame” nor the progressives as “good”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/130 "2019-04-23T14:13:08Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > How much money has Beto taken from oil companies? (Serious question, I have no idea). If it’s a nontrivial amount, that’s a legitimate criticism, regardless of what he might “constantly talk” about. Why is it a _legitimate criticism_? Do GOP voters obsess over this? I haven’t seen it. What you seem to be saying is that if Dem candidates hobble themselves by not accepting donations, so that they lose, that’s a Good Thing.:dubious::rolleyes: It’s not a legitimate criticism, it’s a fucking\* Purity Test. \*Which we have to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/131 "2019-04-23T14:49:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It’s not a legitimate criticism, it’s a fucking\* Purity Test. \*Which we have to stop. The Democrats are simply following the lead set by Libertarians. Winning elections doesn’t matter. Enacting any of the party policies or reforms doesn’t matter. What matters is being seen as the ideologically purest. Discussions among Democrats right now strongly remind me of the infighting among Libertarians a couple decades ago as they spiraled into complete irrelevance. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/132 "2019-04-23T15:22:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why is it a _legitimate criticism_? Do GOP voters obsess over this? I haven’t seen it. > > What you seem to be saying is that if Dem candidates hobble themselves by not accepting donations, so that they lose, that’s a Good Thing.:dubious::rolleyes: > > It’s not a legitimate criticism, it’s a fucking\* Purity Test. \*Which we have to stop. Getting big corporate money out of elections and climate change are notable Democratic positions. Taking money from Big Oil is at least symbolically saying, you don’t really care much about those issues. When important votes come up, a representative’s campaign funding is often scrutinized. Why is it a purity test to do it before they get elected? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/133 "2019-04-23T16:19:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Getting big corporate money out of elections and climate change are notable Democratic positions. Taking money from Big Oil is at least symbolically saying, you don’t really care much about those issues. When important votes come up, a representative’s campaign funding is often scrutinized. Why is it a purity test to do it before they get elected? Why? Look, Big Oil may be a big job producer in your state. They often also do alternate clean energy. > **[Big Oil Is Investing Billions in Renewable Energy. Here's Where and How. |...](https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/06/04/big-oil-is-investing-billions-in-renewable-energy.aspx)** > > From investing in solar panels to designing genetically engineered algae, the world's largest oil companies are serious about renewable energy. So, do we not support Green Energy? What’s wrong with Big Oil when they want to start divesting fossil fuels and slowly making their way into renewables? So taking money from Big Oil can mean you are into Green Energy. Sure, if half their campaign funds come from a Big Oil, maybe we need to take a look. But if Mobil (example) is one of many moderate contributors, then there’s nothing wrong. And sure it would be nice to get big corporate money out of elections, but we can’t hobble ourselves when the GOP is face deep in the trough. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/134 "2019-04-23T16:37:48Z")
It’s not unreasonable for you to take that position. I’m not sure it’s fair for you to declare that ok, half his campaign funding from oil would require a look but anything below that is a purity test. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/135 "2019-04-23T17:00:21Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s not unreasonable for you to take that position. I’m not sure it’s fair for you to declare that ok, half his campaign funding from oil would require a look but anything below that is a purity test. Ok, but let’s not make one modest donation a No-Go. Let’s turn this into a real issue, not a Purity test. Hey Candidate xxx gets a $% or how many $tens of thousands from this industry is one thing, but XXX is a tool of Big Oil because he got $500 check once is just a purity test. So, just saying “They accuse Beto of being in the pocket of Big Oil,…” is bogus. Lets see some real numbers. Crappy accusations with no real numbers behind them are bogus. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/136 "2019-04-23T17:02:18Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > And I’m not going to look it up right now, but I’m guessing AOC’s primary campaign budget was insignificant relative to any establishment Senate campaign. > [@DrDeth](#): > > How about her opponent? > > See, I dont see those as “lame” nor the progressives as “good”. AOC spent $300K\* in contrast to Joe Crowley’s $3.3M. TYT [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_MJTBVUQXY) at minute 3. \*I’ve also heard $330K before the last weeks, in other reports. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/137 "2019-04-23T17:38:27Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > AOC spent $300K\* in contrast to Joe Crowley’s $3.3M. > > TYT [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_MJTBVUQXY) at minute 3. > > \*I’ve also heard $330K before the last weeks, in other reports. Exactly. So couldnt part of that $3Million be better spent? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/138 "2019-04-23T17:43:11Z")
There will always be progressives trying to push the center of the party left. And there will always be moderates trying to push it back towards the center. And everyone in between will be trying to push it towards their specific level of progressiveness. None of this is new, and none of it is terrible. All this discussion and even disagreement is good for the party IMO, in general – which doesn’t mean that you can’t point to a specific race and say “this is or is not the right district to push the progressive alternative”. Feel free to do that, but it’s pointless to try and advocate that very progressive folks stop trying to make the party more progressive. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/139 "2019-04-23T18:01:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ok, but let’s not make one modest donation a No-Go. Let’s turn this into a real issue, not a Purity test. > > Hey Candidate xxx gets a $% or how many $tens of thousands from this industry is one thing, but XXX is a tool of Big Oil because he got $500 check once is just a purity test. > > So, just saying “They accuse Beto of being in the pocket of Big Oil,…” is bogus. Lets see some real numbers. Crappy accusations with no real numbers behind them are bogus. You’re the one who is claiming people are saying that. Do you have a cite of anyone saying so? If they are doing so without providing supporting evidence, that would reflect badly on whoever these unknown people are. Alternately, since you appear to know for certain that Beto’s support from the oil industry was limited to one $500 check, could you link to a cite for that claim? Or are you just doing your usual thing of making up strawmen and flailing at them? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662/140 "2019-04-23T18:06:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Exactly. So couldnt part of that $3Million be better spent? Yes, you’re right. Crowley absolutely should have resolved to run a fair campaign by spending no more than his opponent, and donate the rest of his campaign fund to Democrats running in purple seats. Shame on him for not doing so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obama-warns-of-progressive-purity-and-circular-firing-squads/832662.md?page=8)