# President Obama's Mouth **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574 "2013-07-15T17:30:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/21 "2013-07-15T19:51:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Completely different. That was meant as a joke, and said by Reagan when he thought the mikes were not turned on. We’re talking here about things said in earnest, and deliberately in public. It was an incredibly stupid joke and every politician knows you should always assume the mikes are on. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/22 "2013-07-15T19:52:23Z")
Did you read your own link? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/23 "2013-07-15T19:53:06Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > These are exactly the types of things I was thinking of when I excluded “things that you disagree with or think to be stupid or which in retrospect turn out to be mistakes”. (Also: “bring it on”) > > I don’t think these are the same things at all. What in your mind is the difference between something that’s poorly thought out and off-the-cuff and something that’s stupid or which in retrospect turns out to be a mistake? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/24 "2013-07-15T19:57:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What in your mind is the difference between something that’s poorly thought out and off-the-cuff and something that’s stupid or which in retrospect turns out to be a mistake? What in your mind is the difference between a raven and a writing desk? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/25 "2013-07-15T20:00:08Z")
“…when I see a remark from Obama that seems off the cuff without consideration of the facts or import…” > [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > How about “Mission Accomplished!”? That was a good one. Or, 'heck of a job, Brownie"? Or, “I’m sure the people of Poland don’t consider themselves under the yoke of the Soviet Union”? I’m having a real hard time distinguishing the distinction you seem to be trying to delineate. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/26 "2013-07-15T20:08:45Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What in your mind is the difference between a raven and a writing desk? Are you interested in a debate? It doesn’t look like it. Most people would not make a distinction between those types of utterances. If you’re going to, what are you basing it on? It’s the crux of the issue, and you made a stupid “joke” (not funny) about it. So do you want to talk about this or not? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/27 "2013-07-15T20:16:15Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I could be wrong, but ISTM that President \ has a habit of making poorly thought out, off-the-cuff public remarks about matters, without enough consideration of the situation and the import of his words. I’ll have you know that President William Henry Harrison delivered some carefully thought out public statements about the Whig agenda, but he _never_ made poorly thought out off-the-cuff public remarks about anything during his Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/28 "2013-07-15T20:20:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Did you read your own link? Yes, what is your point ? A President should never, ever joke about launching a nuclear attack, certainly not in a place with microphones. That was all the more true at the height of the Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/29 "2013-07-15T20:25:09Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > It was an incredibly stupid joke and every politician knows you should always assume the mikes are on. And almost all of them forget that advise, including Obama. Reference his message to Putin (or was it the other guy) that he could be more flexible after the election. He didn’t know he was speaking live [from New York!..]. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/30 "2013-07-15T20:30:56Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > “…when I see a remark from Obama that seems off the cuff without consideration of the facts or import…” > > I’m having a real hard time distinguishing the distinction you seem to be trying to delineate. I’m having a hard time understanding what the confusion might be. One is a guy who is talking with consideration of the import of his remarks, and with enough information that would allow a person to make remarks in that context, but whose remarks are incorrect, whether because they just turned out to be wrong or because he was just being stupid. The other is a guy who if he reflected carefully enough as was warranted in that situation would be more precise or circumspect but who says something damaging because he just shot off his mouth. If Obama would have considered that his saying that chemical weapons by Syria was a red line he would bind the US to a foreign policy line I doubt if he himself would have used those words. But he was speaking colloqueally, and wasn’t considering that his words had that impact. > [@Lantern](#): > > Yes, what is your point ? Point was that contrary to your implication, Reagan did not fail to realize that the mike was on - he knew it was on and was in fact testing to make sure it was on. And the impact - such as it was - was not the result of the mike being on, but the result of people reporting on what was intended to be a private joke. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/31 "2013-07-15T20:30:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I could be wrong, but ISTM that President Obama has a habit of making poorly thought out, off-the-cuff public remarks about matters, without enough consideration of the situation and the import of his words. > > Is my impression incorrect? You are wrong and your impression is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/32 "2013-07-15T20:32:05Z")
Considering that this was a sound check right before a broadcast I am not sure how Reagan thought the mics were off. In any case it was an incredibly dumb joke to make in any context. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/33 "2013-07-15T20:33:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What in your mind is the difference between a raven and a writing desk? Is that a poorly thought out and off-the-cuff response to **Little Nemo** ’s very pertinent question, or is it a stupid response which you will in retrospect realize to have been a mistake? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/34 "2013-07-15T20:34:45Z")
I’m sure that **Fotheringay-Phipps** and I come from relatively opposite ends of the political spectrum, but his intended point is not unclear. I disagree with his premise (at least insofar as he implies that this is something unique to Obama), but let me try to clarify. The question, I think, is whether Obama, more than most presidents, is in the habit of making bold and definitive statements about public and foreign policy that, after reflection, he has to back out of. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/35 "2013-07-15T20:35:35Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Point was that contrary to your implication, Reagan did not fail to realize that the mike was on - he knew it was on and was in fact testing to make sure it was on. And the impact - such as it was - was not the result of the mike being on, but the result of people reporting on what was intended to be a private joke. It was John Mace who said that he thought the mics were off. If he knew he was being recorded the “joke” was all the more stupid. Edit: My post 32 was in response to John Mace’s post 29. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/36 "2013-07-15T20:36:44Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > …Reagan did not fail to realize that the mike was on - he knew it was on and was in fact testing to make sure it was on. And the impact - such as it was - was not the result of the mike being on, but the result of people reporting on what was intended to be a private joke. One does not tell private jokes into a live mike. Knowing the mike was live, Reagan made a public gaff. That is the difference between a raven and writing desk. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/37 "2013-07-15T21:38:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I could be wrong, but ISTM that SDMB poster **Fotheringay-Phipps** has a habit of making poorly thought out, off-the-cuff public remarks about matters, without enough consideration of the situation and the import of his words. > > One example is this thread. > > Is my impression incorrect? This is just one incident that sprang to mind offhand - I’ve not made an exhaustive search about this - but when I see a remark from **Fotheringay-Phipps** that seems off the cuff without consideration of the facts or import it kind of feels like a rerun. Maybe not. If you have an issue with another poster, take to e-mail or The BBQ Pit. Challenge the statements; do not attack the poster. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/38 "2013-07-15T22:57:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What in your mind is the difference between a raven and a writing desk? Edibility. You can eat a writing-desk if you have to. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/39 "2013-07-17T13:48:46Z")
When I read between the lines, your post basically says, “Obama is uppity and I don’t like it.” - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574/40 "2013-07-17T14:28:01Z")
Really? I’m getting “See? Your guys are just as dumb as ours!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-obamas-mouth/663574.md?page=3)