# President with a PHD= Dr. President? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 26, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226 "2004-01-26T22:55:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/1 "2004-01-26T22:55:28Z")
If our president had a doctorate, would he be referred to as “Dr. President” instead of “Mr. President”? Has this ever been the case? Has the first lady every been a Dr.? Were/would they be introduced as “President and Dr. [Bush]?” ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/2 "2004-01-26T23:08:27Z")
Woodrow Wilson got a PhD from Johns Hopkins in 1886. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/3 "2004-01-27T00:21:43Z")
Yes, and in all my reading on U.S. history I’ve never seen Wilson referred to as Dr. President or seen a contemporary document with that usage. It was always Mr. President. There has never been a first lady with a doctoral degree, but in the (increasingly unlikely) event of Howard Dean becoming President, I’d say it’s very likely that his wife would be referred to as Dr. Dean. Some day they’ll have to cover this on _The West Wing_ and then we’ll know for sure. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/4 "2004-01-27T01:02:39Z")
If we ever get a President who is a biker, will his wife be the First Old Lady? ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/5 "2004-01-27T01:19:11Z")
I’ve known several PhDs who _never_ use the honorific “Dr.,” although they might have it on their business card (but not always). I’d bet that a President such as the OP contemplates would _not_ be referred to as Dr. President. None leap easily to mind at the moment, but haven’t we had some governors and senators who’ve been PhDs and MDs? How have they been addressed? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/6 "2004-01-27T01:48:33Z")
Most presidents are granted a doctorate or two, but their title is always Mr. President. The same should carry over to a Senator, Congressman, or Justice. Mr. Senator, Mr. Congressman, or Mr. Justice is the correct form of address, at least if you’re addressing them as a government official. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/7 "2004-01-27T03:30:09Z")
Howard Dean’s already been asked and has stated that, if elected, he plans on going with precedent and being referred to as “Mr President” not “Dr President”. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/8 "2004-01-27T03:48:07Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Some day they’ll have to cover this on _The West Wing_ and then we’ll know for sure. 🙂 Well, Abby Bartlett, the wife of the President on the West Wing, is a doctor, and at what point angrily wonders aloud when she became ‘Mrs. Bartlett’ rather than Dr. Bartlett. He’s presumably got a PhD, since he was once a (Nobel-prize-winning) economics professor, but he’s always Mr. President, not Dr. President. So now we know for sure. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cillasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Cillasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cillasi)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/9 "2004-01-27T04:04:00Z")
“Doctor” is an appellation (title). “President” is a rank (relative position in society). I don’t think it’s proper to mix the two. “Mister” is the honorific (showing respect of social superiority). ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/10 "2004-01-27T04:13:03Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > There has never been a first lady with a doctoral degree, but in the (increasingly unlikely) event of Howard Dean becoming President, I’d say it’s very likely that his wife would be referred to as Dr. Dean. And I’d say that it’s actually very unlikely that his wife would be referred to as such, since her name is Judith Steinberg. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/11 "2004-01-27T04:40:55Z")
Yeah, like that’s going to matter to people. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/12 "2004-01-27T05:25:52Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Most presidents are granted a doctorate or two, but their title is always Mr. President. What, you mean like honorary degrees? Do those even count? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/13 "2004-01-27T11:17:26Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > There has never been a first lady with a doctoral degree, but in the (increasingly unlikely) event of Howard Dean becoming President, I’d say it’s very likely that his wife would be referred to as Dr. Dean. Not quite. Hillary Clinton (presumably) has a JD from Yale as she is a lawyer. A JD is technically a doctorate although its holders don’t use the honorific. If Dr. Dean is elected, hopefully his wife will be addressed as she prefers to be called: most likely, Dr. Steinberg. > [@Ringo](#): > > None leap easily to mind at the moment, but haven’t we had some governors and senators who’ve been PhDs and MDs? How have they been addressed? Sen. Bill Frist (R-TN) is an MD and a surgeon. He is usually addressed as Senator Frist, although I have heard him referred to as Dr. Frist. I can’t recall him being referred to as “Mr. Frist”. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/14 "2004-01-27T13:51:07Z")
I read an article recently that put the point that, while doctorates have been conferred in academia for a long time now, calling people who hold them “Doctor” in conversation or using the title in address is a fairly recent convention. Previously, that usage had been reserved to medical doctors and dentists only. So, in President Wilson’s time, it probably wouldn’t have occurred to anyone to call him “Dr. President”. The change in usage of the term, and the candidacy of Howard Dean, are driving this conversation today. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/15 "2004-01-27T16:28:46Z")
Supposedly when Henry Kissinger became Secretary of State the press corps asked if they should address him as Mr. Secretary or Dr. Secretary. “I don’t stand on ceremony,” he replied. “You can just call me Your Excellency and that will be fine.” –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/16 "2004-01-27T16:46:07Z")
Actually, calling only medical doctors “doctor” is recent. If you go back a couple hundred years, anyone with a doctoral degree was “doctor”. There’s been a lot of threads about this. Note that in Germany, titles compound. I know several “Mr./Mrs. Doctor Professors” from Germany. (A few have even longer titles.) In the US, we usually use only the most important one. (Which for most colleges I have worked at was “Professor” but at a few it is strangely “Doctor”. It’s generally much harder to become a Professor than a Doctor.) It is merely an oddity of English that saying “Good morning Doctor.” seems okay but “Good morning President” doesn’t. Hence we sometimes have exceptions like “Mr. President.” (Which actually sounds stuckup to me.) ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/17 "2004-01-27T17:21:45Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > If we ever get a President who is a biker, will his wife be the First Old Lady? Good one. asdfasdfw\<-extra characters. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/18 "2004-01-27T17:29:57Z")
In my book, “doctor” and “general” are roughly equivalent titles, and no president has been called “General President.” ---
**Author:** ![gleeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f14d63/32.png) [@gleeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gleeb)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/19 "2004-01-27T18:14:12Z")
HL Mencken, in his political reporting, regularly would refer to any politician with even an honorary degree as “Dr. So-and-so”. Then again, that’s partially the contempt of a autodidact for the educational establishment. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226/20 "2004-01-27T18:28:43Z")
Ringo: > [@](#): > > None leap easily to mind at the moment, but haven’t we had some governors and senators who’ve been PhDs and MDs? You mean like Dr. Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/president-with-a-phd-dr-president/226226.md?page=2)