# Presidential debate- the camera shot rule **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 3, 2004, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299 "2004-10-03T06:44:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/1 "2004-10-03T06:44:30Z")
Watching a spot on SNL impression of John Kerry’s note taking and facial expression during Bush’s speeches got me thinking- What’s the deal with the presidential debate rule about keeping the camera on one candidate while he is speaking (which both CNN and Fox broke)? Is it simply an etiquette thing, or did its makers understand the impact selective diting might have? And how was it, as well as the other rules involving the televised debate, established? And by whom? [http://www.wftv.com/politics/3770183/detail.html](http://www.wftv.com/politics/3770183/detail.html) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/2 "2004-10-03T06:57:03Z")
(oh I am so embarrassed- could a mod please correct that spelling mistake?- and in the title! No more late night posts) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/3 "2004-10-03T07:02:26Z")
Representative from the two campaigns negotiated everything, or at least that is my understanding. I am so glad that Fox and CNN decided not to go along with the agreement. I watched the entire debate on C-Span and highly recommend it. There was no selective editing other than to shoot Bush at an angle that made him look as tall as Kerry. For the entire debate they were shown side by side on a split screen. I could watch the faces of both candidates at all times. That opportunity was very revealing. I would have missed a lot if I had seen only the candidate speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/4 "2004-10-03T07:50:11Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Representative from the two campaigns negotiated everything, or at least that is my understanding. I am so glad that Fox and CNN decided not to go along with the agreement. > > I watched the entire debate on C-Span and highly recommend it. There was no selective editing other than to shoot Bush at an angle that made him look as tall as Kerry. For the entire debate they were shown side by side on a split screen. > I could watch the faces of both candidates at all times. That opportunity was very revealing. I would have missed a lot if I had seen only the candidate speaking. I, too, am glad I could watch it split-screen and be able to see both candidates. I nearly fell off the couch laughing when I realized they had adjusted camera angles to make both candidates look the same height. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/5 "2004-10-03T12:10:06Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Representative from the two campaigns negotiated everything, or at least that is my understanding. I am so glad that Fox and CNN decided not to go along with the agreement. > > … What I don’t understand is how the two campaigns hoped to make the networks abide by the agreement when they (the networks) were apparently not a party to it. Basically the campaigns each agreed not to show reaction shots, but they forgot that they weren’t the guys who actually pointed the cameras? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/6 "2004-10-03T12:59:00Z")
As I understand it the networks’ position was that they weren’t a party to the agreement and had no voice in the negotiations and so weren’t bound by it. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/7 "2004-10-03T13:04:33Z")
Right. So why bother having an agreement? Were the campaigns naive enough to think the networks would just agree to do what they told them too? OK, I can see why they might have thought that. But still. I am afraid next time around one or both of the campaigns are going to insist on control of the cameras too as a condition to the debates. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/8 "2004-10-03T13:06:53Z")
As I understood it, from the newspaper, the rule demanded that a candidate would not be on camera when the other guy was speaking. The networks did not agree to that, so everybody got the same six camera feeds, and they could decide which feeds to show the audience. I watched on CNN, which showed both guys in a split screen most of the time. The viewer could decide whether to watch the speaker or the reaction. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/9 "2004-10-03T13:09:45Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > Right. So why bother having an agreement? Were the campaigns naive enough to think the networks would just agree to do what they told them too? Who knows? > [@](#): > > OK, I can see why they might have thought that. But still. > > I am afraid next time around one or both of the campaigns are going to insist on control of the cameras too as a condition to the debates. That’s politically hazardous. The first side to suggest that allows the other side to refuse and then use their attempt to control the cameras against them. I think that cat is out of the bag. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/10 "2004-10-03T13:11:01Z")
The reason for the rule is because of the embarassing shot of Bush I during his debate with Clinton. The camera showed Bush I looking at his watch as if he had someplace better to be. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/11 "2004-10-03T14:12:30Z")
The campaigns [tried](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20040928/ap_en_tv/tv_networks_debates) to get the networks to agree to the camera rules and the networks uniformly refused. > [@](#): > > The campaigns have agreed to this," said Princell Hair, CNN general manager. "We haven’t. > > “We have access to these cameras and we’re going to — as we would with any news event — decide which is the best way to broadcast this,” he said. “A producer in the booth will make those determinations, not some people in the campaign.” > [@](#): > > It’s not clear whether the Commission on Presidential Debates will try to enforce these rules; a representative of the commission did not return a call Tuesday seeking comment. Presidential campaigns have the option of dropping out if the agreement isn’t followed, but it might be tough to explain to voters that their candidate won’t participate because he’s worried about a camera. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/12 "2004-10-03T16:34:13Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Who knows? > > That’s politically hazardous. The first side to suggest that allows the other side to refuse and then use their attempt to control the cameras against them. > > I think that cat is out of the bag. I think the political stakes are almost too high for both sides NOT to insist on control of the cameras. Between Bush I looking at his watch and Al Gore sighing it is obvious that these unguarded moments can practically tip an election. The political parties aren’t required by the Constitution to have televised Presidential debates. There was a long time in the TV era where there weren’t any at all. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/13 "2004-10-03T16:41:35Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > I think the political stakes are almost too high for both sides NOT to insist on control of the cameras. Between Bush I looking at his watch and Al Gore sighing it is obvious that these unguarded moments can practically tip an election. The politically smart response is to prepare better. If these debates are so god damned important why didn’t the GW sycophants drop their obsequiousness and hammer him with hard questions during preparation? Or maybe the whole administration apparatchik really thinks they have done **nothing** wrong and can’t conceive of any hard questions. > [@](#): > > The political parties aren’t required by the Constitution to have televised Presidential debates. There was a long time in the TV era where there weren’t any at all. Lost Cause No. 100456 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/14 "2004-10-03T16:56:32Z")
> [@](#): > > The politically smart response is to prepare better. If these debates are so god damned important why didn’t the GW sycophants drop their obsequiousness and hammer him with hard questions during preparation? Or maybe the whole administration apparatchik really thinks they have done **nothing** wrong and can’t conceive of any hard questions. But how do you _really_ feel? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/15 "2004-10-03T17:00:18Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > But how do you _really_ feel? 😃 #%&\*^@!!! ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/16 "2004-10-03T17:02:03Z")
ABC had the split screen too. Are you sure that the _same_ feed wasn’t being shown on all the networks? There was one camera pool. I doubt that the networks were given live feeds from _all_ the onsite cameras. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/17 "2004-10-03T17:04:09Z")
**David** , there’s a reason you’re one of my favourite posters! I _did_ “LOL” on that one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/18 "2004-10-03T17:50:10Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > … > Lost Cause No. 100456 I don’t know what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/19 "2004-10-03T19:37:47Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > I don’t know what you mean. Political parties aren’t even required by the Constitution to have any campaign of any kind for President. In fact parties aren’t even mentioned in the Constitution. However, TV debates are now a fixed part of the process and pointing out that they aren’t a legal requirment is futile. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299/20 "2004-10-03T21:12:20Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Political parties aren’t even required by the Constitution to have any campaign of any kind for President. In fact parties aren’t even mentioned in the Constitution. True. Relevance? > [@](#): > > However, TV debates are now a fixed part of the process and pointing out that they aren’t a legal requirment is futile. You seem to think I have some sort of cause or agenda here, and that it is futile of me to advocate it. If I were espousing a return to the days before we had Presidential debates you would be able to say that was futile. It would be debatable, but you could say it. I guess I have less faith than you apparently do in the purity of the current political process. In my view the political parties are selling a product, namely their candidate. They want to pursuade you to buy (vote for) their product rather than the other party’s. They are anxious to avoid any situation that puts their product in a bad light. We have examples from very recent history where Presidential candidates from BOTH major parties have greatly damaged their chances with unguarded gestures or whatever during these debates. Every Presidential election there are negotiations between the campaigns of the two major parties regarding the number and format of these debates. They decide such minutae as the height of the podiums and the distance between them. All I am saying is that it wouldn’t be much of a stretch from the current siuation for both campaigns to decide during these negotiations that it wasn’t in either of their interests to have uncontrolled cameras rolling and risk having their candidate caught on national TV with his finger embedded in his nose up to the 2nd knuckle. I can imagine a time when the debates would be conducted under tightly controlled TV conditions, and the networks could broadcast it or not as they wished. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-debate-the-camera-shot-rule/267299.md?page=2)