# Presidential IQs **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 24, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307 "2022-01-24T13:22:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/21 "2022-01-24T17:57:45Z")
Yeah, maybe. Like I said, it’s really hard to separate out all his character flaws. But when other people like Rubio tried to adopt his childish name-calling, it backfired on them. In other words, he could be using childish insults because he’s an idiot and that’s all he can manage, or because he has a rapier-like sense of what will please the audience or induce his opponent to make a mistake. You can be smart and still act like a petulant child. Or, you can be a petulant child. But I’m totally cool with the idea that Trump is dumb as a bag of rocks, but has a party trick or two that make him popular with some. People loved him on ‘The Apprentice’, apparently just for being Trump. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/22 "2022-01-24T17:57:59Z")
Trump has made himself the central and undisputed leader of current conservative thinking. Of course he’s smarter than Romney and others who failed to do the same thing ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/23 "2022-01-24T18:00:38Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Trump has made himself the central and undisputed leader of current conservative thinking. I think you have to put “conservative” and “thinking” in air quotes. He has risen to the top of the heap, I’ll give you that. if his stupidity is an act, he’s quite gifted. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/24 "2022-01-24T18:40:00Z")
Love all this discussion, but if we could get a few more rankings, 1 to 8, that would be interesting, too. I’ll give mine in a few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/25 "2022-01-24T19:00:55Z")
There’s different types of intelligence. Trump may score high in interpersonal intelligence, based on his ability to read people, work their weaknesses, tap into their emotions, etc. Of he could just be a shit-headed bully who rose to the top of the political heap at a specific time when a large portion of the population was in the market for a shit-headed bully. I suspect he’s probably pretty interpersonally intelligent, but I also think his narcissism negatively affects his ability to fully engage his interpersonal intelligence, and it magnifies his shortcomings in other areas. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/26 "2022-01-24T19:11:08Z")
Republicans 1 Romney 2 Dole 3 Bush 4 McCain 5 Ford 6 Bush Jr 7 Reagan 8 Trump Democrats 1 Obama 2 B Clinton 3 Gore 4 Kerry 5 H Clinton 6 Mondale 7 Dukakis 8 Biden ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/27 "2022-01-24T19:13:51Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Of he could just be a shit-headed bully who rose to the top of the political heap at a specific time when a large portion of the population was in the market for a shit-headed bully. That’s my assessment. I think there’s a large and growing contingent of mad-as-hell-and-not-going-to-take-it-anymore people who are happy that someone is going to tell “the establishment” to shove it, and this sustained Trump in the primaries. Then in the general he was additionally helped by growing political divisions and mutual animosity. I remember being a bit surprised that Biden didn’t get more blowback for being rude and obnoxious in his VP debate with Paul Ryan, and in retrospect perhaps that was an indication of the direction the country was heading. But of course, Trump took it to a whole new level. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/28 "2022-01-24T19:28:57Z")
You’re talking about a whole different marketing thing going on. I think the first time, in recent memory (mine), a party tried running on “OK, I may not be smarter than my opponent but I’m more of a reg’lar guy” was Reagan, and it worked, and it kind of did for Clinton in '92 (compared to Bush Sr. who tried “Hey, I’m also dumb” but not enough voters bought his “dummy” act) and then it REALLY came out in 2000 when Bush Jr was not only genuinely much dumber than his dad and his opponent but played up how dumb he was, and of course Palin just blew the field away. Once she was done, the door was wide open for Donald “I AM A TOTAL RUDE, CRUDE, ASSHOLE, JUST LIKE YOU WISH YOU COULD BE” Trump. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/29 "2022-01-24T19:54:44Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > […] and of course Palin just blew the field away. FWIW, I think Palin may be getting a bad rap, IQ-wise. Palin is the only person since Spiro Agnew to run for VP without having held national office (e.g. Senate, Congress, Cabinet). Even someone with a reasonably high IQ would have a hard time boning up on national issues to the level expected of VP candidates in the span of time that she had to do it.(There have been some governors who have succesfully run for president, but these people spent years preparing for those campaigns.) And of course, once the issue was noticed, it became the focus of the media and was greatly magnified. But that may be OT for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/30 "2022-01-24T20:46:05Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > Palin is the only person since Spiro Agnew to run for VP without having held national office (e.g. Senate, Congress, Cabinet) Dukakis did pretty well on the general smarts, despite never having held national office, and plenty of governors and others before him (Stevenson, Eisenhower, Teddy Roosevelt, Wendell Willkie, Tom Dewey, Woodrow Wilson) never held national office before running for President. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/31 "2022-01-24T20:57:24Z")
I addressed that in my post. You may have missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/32 "2022-01-24T21:59:54Z")
No, I caught it. So Palin’s excuse is “I’ve just been here for 15 minutes”? Like that’s not a clear DQ for the job? it was just, as I just said, a prelude to Trump’s “Qualifications? I’m an ignorant asshole, that’s my qualification.” ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/33 "2022-01-24T22:06:21Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > No, I caught it. If you did then you missed the point. Your response just pointed to a bunch of governors and the like who ran for president. I had already observed that people who run for president bone up in advance on issues that they know they need for their run. A person suddenly selected as VP doesn’t have that option. So your examples missed the point. > [@Roger\_That](#): > > So Palin’s excuse is “I’ve just been here for 15 minutes”? Like that’s not a clear DQ for the job? it was just, as I just said, a prelude to Trump’s “Qualifications? I’m an ignorant asshole, that’s my qualification.” Now you’re saying something else (apparently unrelated to your prior post). But this too misses the point. The question I was addressing was Palin’s **IQ**. Whether she should have run for VP with so little time to prepare is a completely different issue. All I said was that she might have a reasonably high **IQ** , but have been relatively uneducated on national issues due to her prior career path and sudden selection as VP. Nothing you’ve said even begins to address that. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2022, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/34 "2022-01-24T22:12:36Z")
I think we’re getting off-track here, and talking past each other besides. Palin was dumb as a post but that was what she was running on: “All of ya regular folks dont know none of this, neither, right? So vote for me, and I’ll figger it out just like any of ya could.” That was a first, for either party, in as long as I remember. Dumb = good candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/35 "2022-01-25T04:19:37Z")
My understanding is that Clinton, Obama and Nixon were among the most intelligent presidents. I’m not sure how they determined that though. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/36 "2022-01-25T04:20:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Intelligence isn’t even particularly relevant for a president. Disagree. Its not the only relevant trait by any means, but its important. A president needs to be able to grasp and understand very complex concepts. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/37 "2022-01-25T04:31:42Z")
Back to the OP (So soon? Aww!). IQ correlates with intelligence, but primarily measures how well the subject will do on a generalized test. With that in mind, here are my lists: **Republicans** 1. Romney 2. Bush 3. McCain 4. Dole 5. Ford 6. Reagan 7. Bush jr 8. Trump **Democrats** 1. B. Clinton 2. Dukakis 3. Obama 4. H.Clinton 5. Mondale 6. Gore 7. Kerry 8. Biden **All up** With 4 closely spaced clusters with big gaps between them: 1-5; 6-11; 12-14; 15-16 1. B. Clinton 2. Dukakis 3. Romney 4. Obama 5. H.Clinton 6. Mondale 7. Bush 8. Gore 9. Kerry 10. McCain 11. Dole 12. Ford 13. Biden 14. Reagan 15. Bush jr 16. Trump ---
**Author:** ![billy-jack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@billy-jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billy-jack)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/38 "2022-01-25T04:33:27Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > - Ford > - Reagan > - Bush > - Dole > - Bush jr > - McCain > - Romney > - Trump George HW Bush always seemed highly intelligent to me. If the list of the last eight of each major party were bravery instead of intelligence, George HW Bush and Bob Dole would be at the top of the pack. His actions and the actions of every pilot that day in attacking Chichijima during World War II were very impressive. He was also perhaps the luckiest President in that he survived being shot down in that attack. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Max](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9de053/32.png) [@Blue\_Max](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Max)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/39 "2022-01-25T06:03:31Z")
I would not be surprised if the Andrews (Jackson and Johnson) rated very low in IQ. I’d also point out that presidents with a lot of different skills may well be evidence of having a very high IQ. On the flip side, humble Harry Truman probably would be guided more by EQ than IQ; a President needs an above average IQ, but in the competition against some of the brilliant minds that created our nation or policies that solved crises (Adams, Jefferson, Henry Clay, Woodrow Wilson), he probably does come up short. Trump might not be dead last in a list of all presidents and party nominees, but having to break out someone like Ulysses Grant, William Henry Harrison or John C. Fremont is probably about the scope of it. Grant was a flawed president and potentially an abuser of alcohol; Harrison died very quickly after taking office, and Fremont’s track record outside of being in California at the right time is very dismal. As for highest IQ, I think the winner is Benjamin Franklin, who was an informal rival to George Washington as first president (The federalists largely decided by consensus to make Washington president). Franklin is scientist, writer, inventor, diplomat and elder statesman. If Franklin is disqualified, I’d suggest Jefferson next. Democrats: 1. B. Clinton 2. Obama 3. H. Clinton 4. Dukakis 5. Gore 6. Kerry 7. Mondale 8. Biden Republicans 1. Bush Sr. 2. Romney 3. Dole 4. McCain 5. Ford 6. Reagan 7. Bush Jr. 8. Trump ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2022, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307/40 "2022-01-25T10:28:06Z")
One of the reasons the OP began with Ford was that Nixon would be a runaway winner in the GOP category, much as he would have been a loser in most other ways. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-iqs/958307.md?page=3)