# Presidential Prosecution - Why is there such a gaping void in our constitution? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120 "2017-06-16T15:11:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/41 "2017-06-19T05:03:17Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The previous President didn’t seem to fear checks and balances. After all, “I won” and “I have a phone and a pen.” Do you remember that? Do you remember anything else about the last 8 years? Like any of the factors that might lead to such flippant remarks? Like, my memory isn’t the best, but I’m 99% sure that there’s a _reason_ why Obama made those statements. It wasn’t just that the democrats, from day one, assumed that absolutely no bipartisanship whatsoever would be possible on just about any issue. (What you may be thinking about are the current republicans, who designed their new health care bill to be passed without a single democratic amendment or vote, nuked the filibuster on judicial nominees, and pushed through a slate of unqualified assholes to the cabinet along party lines, giving exactly zero shits about what the other side of the aisle had to say on the matter.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/42 "2017-06-19T05:15:33Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > (What you may be thinking about are the current republicans, who . . . nuked the filibuster on judicial nominees. . . From the [Washington Post, November 21, 2013](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-poised-to-limit-filibusters-in-party-line-vote-that-would-alter-centuries-of-precedent/2013/11/21/d065cfe8-52b6-11e3-9fe0-fd2ca728e67c_story.html?utm_term=.6e6332562ab4): > [@](#): > > Senate Democrats took the dramatic step Thursday of eliminating filibusters for most nominations by presidents, a power play they said was necessary to fix a broken system but one that Republicans said will only rupture it further. > > Democrats used a rare parliamentary move to change the rules so that federal judicial nominees and executive-office appointments can advance to confirmation votes by a simple majority of senators, rather than the 60-vote supermajority that has been the standard for nearly four decades. Funny thing to forget. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/43 "2017-06-19T07:01:18Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > … the current republicans, who designed their new health care bill to be passed without a single democratic amendment or vote … I’m pretty sure the previous Democrats designed their old health care bill (Obamacare) to pass without a single Republican amendment or vote too. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/44 "2017-06-19T07:34:33Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The previous President didn’t seem to fear checks and balances. After all, “I won” and “I have a phone and a pen.” Do you remember that? > > And how many times were the Obama Administration’s positions overturned by the Supreme Court, often unanimously, or close to it? Feel free to itemize the CRIMES that he was accused of. (And by a recognized authority, not Breitbart or O’Reilly.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/45 "2017-06-19T07:37:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > We should stop letting the stupid public decide things, right? Place authority in the hands of those who know what’s best, am I right? > > Or really just that portion of the public that appears willfully ignorant. We know what’s best. Those bozos just retard progress. You have a gift for stating extremes to try to make opposing points look ridiculous. That’s your solution, not mine. So unless I say it, don’t try to pin that bullshit onto me. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/46 "2017-06-19T13:16:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m pretty sure the previous Democrats designed their old health care bill (Obamacare) to pass without a single Republican amendment or vote too. The one that contained dozens of Republican amendments? That one? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/47 "2017-06-19T13:23:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > You have a gift for stating extremes to try to make opposing points look ridiculous. That’s your solution, not mine. So unless I say it, don’t try to pin that bullshit onto me. You certainly said that there was an undesirable outcome related to “A certain portion of the public that appears to be almost willfully ignorant.” What solution were you proposing? > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Feel free to itemize the CRIMES that he was accused of. (And by a recognized authority, not Breitbart or O’Reilly.) Then use the same metric: What CRIMES has Trump been accused of by a recognized authority? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/48 "2017-06-19T14:31:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You certainly said that there was an undesirable outcome related to “A certain portion of the public that appears to be almost willfully ignorant.” What solution were you proposing? Stating a fact does not imply a solution. YOU implied the solution. And, in fact, there probably isn’t one. You can’t reason someone out of blind faith. > [@](#): > > Then use the same metric: What CRIMES has Trump been accused of by a recognized authority? I suggest you go back and read Comey’s testimony. Obstruction of justice. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/49 "2017-06-19T14:34:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m pretty sure the previous Democrats designed their old health care bill (Obamacare) to pass without a single Republican amendment or vote too. Then you’re wrong, and seriously misinformed. An exemplar of your party, really. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/50 "2017-06-19T14:35:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Stating a fact does not imply a solution. YOU implied the solution. And, in fact, there probably isn’t one. You can’t reason someone out of blind faith. > > I suggest you go back and read Comey’s testimony. Obstruction of justice. I suggest you do. Comey did not accuse Trump of obstruction of justice, either explicitly or by describing a set of acts that would legally constitute obstruction of justice. This point has been repeatedly hammered out here in various threads. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/51 "2017-06-19T14:38:46Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > The one that contained dozens of Republican amendments? That one? What the hell are you talking about? Lots of amendments were attempted. Only two succeeded: the Pell grant provisions in Sec. 2101(a)(2)(C) and Sec. 2101(a)(2)(D). And those two succeeded because of a violation of reconciliation rules. Can you specifically name any other Republican amendments that survived into the final bill? Much less name 22 of them? (The minimum number to make “dozens” a true statement?) ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/52 "2017-06-19T14:42:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What the hell are you talking about? > > Lots of amendments were attempted. Only two succeeded: the Pell grant provisions in Sec. 2101(a)(2)(C) and Sec. 2101(a)(2)(D). And those two succeeded because of a violation of reconciliation rules. > > Can you specifically name any other Republican amendments that survived into the final bill? Much less name 22 of them? (The minimum number to make “dozens” a true statement?) 159, mostly technical: [PolitiFact | Obama says health plan incorporates the ideas of Democrats and Republicans](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/barack-obama/Obama-says-health-plan-incorporates-ideas-of-Democ/) And nearly all of the core concepts of the ACA were Republican in origin, including the dread “individual mandate.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/53 "2017-06-19T15:31:05Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > 159, mostly technical: [PolitiFact | Obama says health plan incorporates the ideas of Democrats and Republicans](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/barack-obama/Obama-says-health-plan-incorporates-ideas-of-Democ/) And nearly all of the core concepts of the ACA were Republican in origin, including the dread “individual mandate.” That article lists amendments offered in the House and Senate. Which of them do you contend made it into the final bill, post-reconciliation? ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/54 "2017-06-19T16:10:13Z")
Given that the amendments were described as “mostly technical and non-controvertial,” I’d guess, most of them? I’m not interested in looking it up, frankly. Go play No True Scotsman with someone else, and address the more important point that the legislation was basically designed by Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/55 "2017-06-19T20:58:57Z")
What I love is the fallback argument…“Impeach him.” Knowing full well that there’s about as much chance of this House doing so as I have of transforming into a rhinoceros tomorrow. Not to mention that if it had been President Hillary pulling this shit, impeachment hearings would have been scheduled by now. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/56 "2017-06-19T21:18:25Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > The one that contained dozens of Republican amendments? That one? > [@TimeWinder](#): > > Then you’re wrong, and seriously misinformed. An exemplar of your party, really. > [@TimeWinder](#): > > Given that the amendments were described as “mostly technical and non-controvertial,” I’d guess, most of them? I’m not interested in looking it up, frankly. Which party is your guesswork an exemplar of? I’ll admit that it was 1:00 am when I posted that last night and I was tired, I was thinking much more of the votes than the amendments, but I find the idea “the legislation was basically designed by Republicans” intriguing. What’s your source? Because [here is the sort of shit I remember going on](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/34692080/ns/health-health_care/t/dems-bypass-tradition-final-health-deal/#.WUg-dmjytGo): > [@](#): > > House and Senate Democrats intend to bypass traditional procedures when they negotiate a final compromise on health care legislation, officials said Monday, **a move that will exclude Republican lawmakers** and reduce their ability to delay or force politically troubling votes in both houses. > > The unofficial timetable calls for final passage of the measure to remake the nation’s health care system by the time President Barack Obama delivers his State of the Union address, probably in early February. > > Democratic aides said **the final compromise talks would essentially be a three-way negotiation involving top Democrats in the House and Senate and the White House** , a structure that gives unusual latitude to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada and Speaker Nancy Pelosi of California. [C-SPAN Demands Democrats Open Secret Health Reform Talks](https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/doug-heye/2010/01/05/c-span-demands-democrats-open-secret-health-reform-talks) > [@](#): > > As reported by the Associated Press, Congressional Quarterly, USA Today, the Washington Post, and, not insignificantly, Peter Roff with U.S. News & World Report, **House and Senate Democrats will negotiate the legislation in private, far away from the prying eyes of Capitol Hill Republicans** and far away from prying cameras. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/57 "2017-06-19T21:53:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m pretty sure the previous Democrats designed their old health care bill (Obamacare) to pass without a single Republican amendment or vote too. Was this before or after every single republican pledged to vote against it, despite the basic framework being from the Heritage Foundation? And before or after the bill incorporated [well over a hundred republican amendments](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/mar/16/luis-gutierrez/rep-gutierrez-says-hundreds-republican-amendments-/)? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/58 "2017-06-19T22:02:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > [C-SPAN Demands Democrats Open Secret Health Reform Talks](https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/doug-heye/2010/01/05/c-span-demands-democrats-open-secret-health-reform-talks) Okay, this was in January. The bill passed in March. In the intervening time, there was _25 days of public debate_. > **[Analysis | Mitch McConnell on the health-care legislative process, 2010 vs. 2017](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/06/19/mitch-mcconnell-on-the-health-care-legislative-process-2010-versus-2017/?utm_term=.9592285abe3d)** > > The Senate Majority Leader earns an Upside-Down Pinocchio for his shifting rhetoric on passing health-care legislation. Clearly, this is exactly what is going to happen to the republican bill. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/59 "2017-06-19T22:19:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > What I love is the fallback argument…“Impeach him.” Knowing full well that there’s about as much chance of this House doing so as I have of transforming into a rhinoceros tomorrow. > > Not to mention that if it had been President Hillary pulling this shit, impeachment hearings would have been scheduled by now. So what? Seriously, you say this like it has some weighty significance. But from the perspective of Constitutional operation, a Congress sympathetic to the President is conceded to be far less likely to impeach than one hostile to the President. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120/60 "2017-06-19T22:21:50Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Given that the amendments were described as “mostly technical and non-controvertial,” I’d guess, most of them? I’m not interested in looking it up, frankly. Go play No True Scotsman with someone else, and address the more important point that the legislation was basically designed by Republicans. Translation: you might be right but I’m going to change the subject. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidential-prosecution-why-is-there-such-a-gaping-void-in-our-constitution/789120.md?page=4)