# Presidents from outer space **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 9, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480 "2012-11-09T14:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![psythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@psythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psythe)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/1 "2012-11-09T14:34:51Z")
[Original column here](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2343/could-a-member-of-an-extraterrestrial-species-be-u-s-president) In order to be indistinguishable from a human the alien may have indulged in a fair amount of gene modification. Alternatively he/she/bwrzz/ktaaas/vvvvnth may have done the gene modification on his/her/bwrzza/ktaaasth/vvvvn’chi reproductive organs alone. My point was that, if (henceforth ‘they’) were capable of producing fertile offspring with humans as a result, normal taxonomy throws a wobbly and says they’re the same species as humans, just a different subspecies (and as Cecil says, we’d probably not have too much of a problem with neanderthals these days, especially as it’s been shown that most of us have a little neanderthal in us). If you wanted to get a little more controversial I suspect that a lot of the time what we refer to as a “race” of humans we should refer to as a “subspecies” - particularly in remote aboriginal tribes with an uncontaminated genetic heritage. * * * MODERATOR NOTE: Please be aware, this is a column from Dec 2012, revived on Oct 9, 2013 in post #14. – CKDH ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/2 "2012-11-09T18:49:33Z")
Fixed link. > **[Could a member of an extraterrestrial species be U.S. president?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343484/could-a-member-of-an-extraterrestrial-species-be-u-s-president)** **psythe** , this is the second mangled link I’ve seen. Please take a moment to figure out how to do them correctly. That “original post here” thingy isn’t working. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/3 "2012-11-09T22:05:02Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Fixed link. > > [Could a member of an extraterrestrial species be U.S. president? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2343/could-a-member-of-an-extraterrestrial-species-be-u-s-president) > > **psythe** , this is the second mangled link I’ve seen. Please take a moment to figure out how to do them correctly. That “original post here” thingy isn’t working. Yeah, I think you’re doing it backward, **psythe** , typing it as: [noparse][[Could a member of an extraterrestrial species be U.S. president? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2343/could-a-member-of-an-extraterrestrial-species-be-u-s-president)](original link here)[/noparse] when it should be [noparse][original link here](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2343/could-a-member-of-an-extraterrestrial-species-be-u-s-president)[/noparse] ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/4 "2012-11-09T23:16:33Z")
If aliens land and decide to stay a while, they’ll need to be covered by our laws. Suppose someone kills an alien, and the jury decides it wasn’t murder because the victim wasn’t a person? Before such a travesty of justice has a chance to happen and cause an interstellar diplomatic incident, we’ll need to declare them legally persons. This will need to happen long before we elect them to public office. ---
**Author:** ![tavaritz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@tavaritz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavaritz)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/5 "2012-11-10T01:21:52Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > If aliens land and decide to stay a while, they’ll need to be covered by our laws. Suppose someone kills an alien, and the jury decides it wasn’t murder because the victim wasn’t a person? Before such a travesty of justice has a chance to happen and cause an interstellar diplomatic incident, we’ll need to declare them legally persons. This will need to happen long before we elect them to public office. I’m quite sure that the amended definition of person would be put into law in most of the countries if group of outer space aliens decide to linger on Earth for a while. Would we define special laws concerning on how to treat those aliens? I’d say it depends what they are ready to pay for. Topi ---
**Author:** ![FatherGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@FatherGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatherGeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/6 "2012-11-10T21:49:07Z")
There were also a number of German speakers in South Carolina during that period. They were from Germany, Austria and Switzerland. My family was Swiss. Father George ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/7 "2012-11-13T16:37:38Z")
> [@psythe](#): > > [[Could a member of an extraterrestrial species be U.S. president? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2343/could-a-member-of-an-extraterrestrial-species-be-u-s-president)](Original post here) > > In order to be indistinguishable from a human the alien may have indulged in a fair amount of gene modification. Alternatively he/she/bwrzz/ktaaas/vvvvnth may have done the gene modification on his/her/bwrzza/ktaaasth/vvvvn’chi reproductive organs alone. > > My point was that, if (henceforth ‘they’) were capable of producing fertile offspring with humans as a result, normal taxonomy throws a wobbly and says they’re the same species as humans, just a different subspecies (and as Cecil says, we’d probably not have too much of a problem with neanderthals these days, especially as it’s been shown that most of us have a little neanderthal in us). If you wanted to get a little more controversial I suspect that a lot of the time what we refer to as a “race” of humans we should refer to as a “subspecies” - particularly in remote aboriginal tribes with an uncontaminated genetic heritage. Well, first of all, the general current biological definition of species isn’t a group that _can_ interbreed with each other (after all, for instance lions and tigers can interbreed in artificial conditions but they’re separate species), it’s a group that regularly _does_ interbreed with each other. Though as genetic engineering advances, the concept of ‘species’ may indeed be rethought, or perhaps seen as only applicable to natural non-genetically-engineered populations. And secondly, most of the time what we refer to as a ‘race’ of humans is a group that doesn’t really have any biological/genetic basis. So it doesn’t make sense to refer to any ‘race’ as a biological subspecies. ---
**Author:** ![Outpits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4bbf92/32.png) [@Outpits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Outpits)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/8 "2012-11-13T17:21:21Z")
The legal blog [Law and the Multiverse](http://lawandthemultiverse.com/)regularly looks at issues surrounding the definition of “person” and how it applies to extraterrestrials. One example is [this](http://lawandthemultiverse.com/2012/08/17/marriage-and-the-multiverse/)posting looking at whether it would be legal for a human to marry a non-human, using the examples of Genie (a djinn) marrying Major Nelson and Clark Kent marrying Lois Lane. It must be remembered that in the multiverse world that is comics there are often many variations of origins of superheroes. In some variations Superman (Kal-El) was sent as a baby in a rocket to Earth (Marlon Brando looking on wistfully). In other continuities he is sent in a “birthing matrix” and it is from that matrix that the Kent family pulls him. In the latter the Supreme Court found him to be “born” in Kansas when the Kent family pulled him frmo teh matrix, analogizing the matrix to a womb, apparently. Action Comcs Annual 3 (DC Comics 1991) The authors of this blog haave just published a book called “The Law of Superheroes” that goes into many legal issues surrounding superheroes and supervillains. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/9 "2012-11-14T04:26:54Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > (after all, for instance lions and tigers can interbreed in artificial conditions but they’re separate species), Note that the only necessary “artificial condition” is that they be in contact. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/10 "2012-11-14T04:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > In other continuities he is sent in a “birthing matrix” and it is from that matrix that the Kent family pulls him. In the latter the Supreme Court found him to be “born” in Kansas when the Kent family pulled him frmo teh matrix, analogizing the matrix to a womb, apparently. Action Comcs Annual 3 (DC Comics 1991) Which isn’t even necessary, because even in the continuities where Superman was born on Krypton and sent here as a baby (which is to say, most of them), he’s still a natural-born citizen of the US. Foundlings are considered to be natural-born citizens of the place where they’re found, unless that status is challenged before their 18th birthday, after which the status cannot be revoked. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/11 "2012-11-14T08:33:08Z")
I think that’s only true of countries which have acceded to the [Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Convention_on_the_Reduction_of_Statelessness#Contracting_States) (though other countries may have legislation which is analogous, or covered under _jus soli_). ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/12 "2012-11-14T16:19:41Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > I think that’s only true of countries which have acceded to the [Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Convention_on_the_Reduction_of_Statelessness#Contracting_States) (though other countries may have legislation which is analogous, or covered under _jus soli_). The United States has a distinct statutory status for foundlings, per the 1940 “Foundling Statute” ([Immigration and Naturalization Act [8 USC 1401 (f)]](http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-9679.html)): [QUOTE=Immigration and Naturalization Act] The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: \ (f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of **five years** , until shown, prior to his attaining the age of **twenty-one years** , not to have been born in the United States; [/quote] I’ve highlighted where the statute has ages different from the ones mentioned earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/13 "2012-12-05T14:02:50Z")
Yeah, _you_ just try telling Superman he’s gonna be deported. ---
**Author:** ![psythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@psythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psythe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/14 "2013-10-09T15:54:30Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > Note that the only necessary “artificial condition” is that they be in contact. Interesting. I was told way back in school that the reason lions and tigers were separate species despite being able to produce viable offspring was that the offspring were not fertile and thus not truly viable. However it turns out that both ligers and tigons have produced fertile offspring, so I’m guessing the definition given above is a recent thing? Sorry about the duff links BTW - I will endeavor to be more careful in the future! ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-from-outer-space/640480/15 "2013-10-09T18:49:09Z")
As in so many cases, such as the planethood of Pluto, the problem is trying to make a hard definition for a soft situation.