There’s nothing to 'fess up to. No revelation, no secret.
I read that part of his executive order in full. Is ICE supposed to read between the lines or something and go easy on immigrants who submit false information when applying for deferral?
And again, this isn’t 1986. Nor is this a law passed by Congress. This is a rather short executive order that anyone can read in full in less than 30 minutes. There is nothing in there that even hints that ICE should grant deferment to immigrants who submit false documents.
All this executive order does is something rather unobjectionable: it grants relief from deportation for immigrants whose sole crime is being here illegally. It does not grant relief for other crimes, and when you look at the logic of what a background check and paying back taxes means, then there’s also no way to hide a false identity from the government if an immigrant who has been using one comes forward. How else would they prove they qualify for the deferment?
Again, I’m talking from precedent, and no: in my case I did not have to present false evidence, you are jumping from the past use of a fake id to the new evidence produced to show that one did live in the USA for x amount of time. That is not the same thing. It is really silly to ignore that yes, there is a problem with fake id’s, but even then Republican presidents understood that forgiveness also implied forgiving the moves made by immigrants to prevent the loss of their jobs in those days.
It would be really silly not to make allowances in this case too, just like it was done before.
Precisely. For example, many people have pay stubs from their jobs in their own names to show that they were in the U.S. and working during the time period in question. Whether they used fake ID to get those jobs is a different issue than whether they were physically present in the U.S. or whether the pay stubs actually are legitimate documents and relate to them.
There is no precedent for this. The 1986 amnesty was a duly enacted law passed by Congress that superseded previous federal laws and state laws.
This is just an executive order with no power to stop state prosecutions of identity thieves, state tax evaders, or document fraudsters. An executive order cannot stop employers from firing people who they just found out gave them false documentation.
There is no way for an immigrant to comply with the background check and paying of back taxes without revealing that they used a false identity, which is a felony. Show me where in the executive order where they are shielded from prosecution. Precedent means nothing here. The executive order only shields illegals from deportation for being here illegally. It does not shield them from facing prosecution for other crimes.
The other problem is that if these crimes were to be forgiven, they’d need guidance on how far they can go. Do you only forgive the use of fake ID, but not identity theft? Do you forgive identity theft as long as it was only used for employment? What if they applied for a credit card or a car loan?
It is really silly to ignore that to forgive the illegals (temporarily) for being here does imply also a forgiving of those isues when coming forward. The laws that was passed and what they did when it was enforced is good precedent for the executive to follow.
Restating a problem that goes away by coming forward is underwhelming.
And the reality is that more often than not, as it was in my case, there was a lot of tax return money that I never saw. Rather than being tax evaders many immigrants that you are despising are actually seeing their tax return money evading them, they do pay more.
You will ignore it, and here I will make an assumption, chances are that you were going to school when I was testing electronic components in silicon valley (got zapped once by a voltage once) that did eventually go to tomahawk missiles, that led to a very short first gulf war.
I’m glad the taxes that never came back to me helped a lot of people like you in their education and then my efforts helped a little in saving a lot of soldiers that did not have to risk much as electronics and rockets allowed many soldiers to not risk their lives directly.
And I do not think a lot of the families and promising young people that are asking for our help now should be ignored just because of politics.
Perhaps, but he did not include that in his executive order. He probably knows very well that he can’t get away politically with forgiving felonies at this point. Only Congress can do that.
Only half of DACA-eligible people have come forward, probably for that very reason. At most, 2.5 million people will be eligible in practice, maybe less.
AFAIK and remember that was also left vague in the law, in the end the ones enforcing the law then (Republican administrations) set that precedent that allowed me and many others to not be asked much about using things like a fake social security number in the past with my name; also, as mentioned, the fact that I never looked to get any taxes back helped a lot.
And nowhere I did say that cases where felonies other than just using a fake id for residence or jobs should be ignored.
In any case, the republicans and you are willing to toss out those 2.5 million too.
And yes, you did ignore what I did for people like you in the past, you are wellcome regardless.
I think it’s fair to point out that the executive order doesn’t say anything about false documentation or how that will be addressed.
I think it’s also fair to point out that when Congress under Reagan took action, there were some similar vagaries, and at that time the Republican led Congress and Republican President felt it best to let those matters slide.
However, now is not then, the political divide is very contentious right now, and the right-wing has a huge swing in their favor via the Tea Party. The Tea Party is cozying up to the brown immigration haters, and that makes for some trepidation on how things will play out.
All that Obama did was state that illegals who have been here for five years must prove they’ve been here for five years, and must pay back taxes. Presumably that will require some sort of salary identification in order to establish what those taxes could be. And all that Obama has promised is that they will not be deported for three years, or until Congress takes action and makes a law, or until the next President comes to office and writes another executive order.
The text of the executive order says he wants prioritization shifted to violent criminals - drug trafficers, robberies, homicides, etc. He did not say include non-violent felony identity theft in that prioritization. Legitimately, those are crimes that could still be prosecuted, but there is a very narrow window of people who have been here for five years working who did not have to use some form of fake ID to get that job. Sure, you’ve got day laborers and yardwork crews and the like, because they can usually get away without needing a social security number. But folks working restaurants or hotel cleaning crews or any regular job with a reasonable number of employees is either going to have needed fake IDs to get hired or going need compliance from their employers.
It may be reasonable to think Obama is hoping to see some form of amnesty or leeway granted the way it was before, but doesn’t have the authority to state it in his executive order. I would hope that Congress would see sense, and realize there is no point in granting any kind of relief to illegals who have been here if it doesn’t provide some form of amnesty for minimal false ID and SS number falsification. But that requires sense from Congress, and they’ve shown very little of that in the last few years.
It would have to cover a very minimal offense, and the amnesty would have to apply to all, not just illegal immigrants. That goes for back taxes too. If illegals avoid penalties and interest, all Americans do.
But most importantly, the scale of the crime would have to be considered. Using a fake ID to get a job is one thing. Using a stolen identity, and also using that stolen identity to get credit, car loans, government benefits, that should not be forgiven. Those are not victimless crimes. Also important must be confession. We say we need to get these people out of the shadows. Fine. Part of forgiveness is confession. We need to know how they got employment, and they need to register that fake identity so that we can find out if anyone else is using it and make them come forward too. If they stole someone’s identity, they need to make restitution in full.
I’d just like to point out that plenty of people who work in the U.S. without authorization, even with false documents, pay income taxes. A Social Security number is not required to pay income taxes - you can do it with an ITIN. The overwhelming majority of the clients I have seen without lawful immigration status do file Federal tax returns, and of those who do not, they are still paying Federal income tax because the overwhelming majority of employed people do work on the books and have taxes withheld form their checks, and most would probably qualify for a refund if they did file tax returns.
Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal
That’s fine. But some will owe back taxes and they should not get a break that law abiding Americans wouldn’t get.
Sure, and I don’t have a problem with that - I’m a taxpaying American, too. But if anyone thinks the Feds are in for a huge payday in back taxes, I think they will be disappointed.
Of course not and that’s not the point. The point is justice. Going after me if I made an error on my tax return wouldn’t help the treasury much, but it would still be important to do it.
If immigrants who broke the law get special treatment, that will rightfully offend law abiding Americans. There’s a difference between humane and merciful treatment of families and just letting people skate because of politics.