# Presidents who went by their initials **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955 "2008-12-06T04:35:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![djrosenblatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f0a364/32.png) [@djrosenblatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djrosenblatt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/1 "2008-12-06T04:35:21Z")
As far as I’m aware, we’ve had four presidents who, during their times in office, as well as historically, have been commonly referred to by their initials: FDR, JFK, LBJ, and TR (that’s Franklin Delano Roosevelt, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Lyndon Baines Johnson, and Theodore Roosevelt, for the historically challenged among us). Note that, with the possible exception of TR, even today we can casually invoke the initials of the above presidents to refer to them, and most educated listeners will know exactly who we’re talking about. (I doubt, by the way, that “W” will stand the test of time as a shorthand for referring to the 43rd president, and most of the future shorthands used for him may be unprintable here.) I suppose one of the prerequisites for the common usage of a full 3- or 4-letter presidential abbreviation is that it roll comfortably off the tongue. (Which might partly explain why our last four commanders-in-chief have never been known by their initials: they all have those awkward, 3-syllable W’s in their names [GWB, WJC, GHWB, and RWR].) Anyway, can anyone tell me if there have been any other U.S. presidents in our 220 year history who were also, at one time or another, popularly referred to by their initials? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/2 "2008-12-06T05:53:18Z")
DDE was not common but not totally rare either, for Eisenhower. I haven’t seen it used to any significant extent, though, since around 1970. Added: HST for Truman was pretty much the same – except that it has a very narrow continuing usage in some histories. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/3 "2008-12-06T06:47:33Z")
Explanation by a former J (Journalism) student: It had nothing to do with the value of a president, but with how many spaces it took to spell out his name. F’rinstance, “Johnson” took up, as I recall, seven spaces, while “LBJ” used only three. That left the headline writer four extra spaces. ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/4 "2008-12-06T08:06:12Z")
i think W or Dubya will stand the length of time. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/5 "2008-12-06T08:12:14Z")
> [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > i think W or Dubya will stand the length of time. Why, when GWB is much more precise, and although it’s three times as long, only uses two more letters. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/6 "2008-12-06T09:00:58Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Explanation by a former J (Journalism) student: It had nothing to do with the value of a president, but with how many spaces it took to spell out his name. Absolutely. The widespread usage of FDR, JFK, and LBJ was an artifact of the glory days of newspaper journalism, when newspapers (a) were important; and (b) relied on huge banner headlines, which put space at a premium, to convey important stories. Nixon, Ford, and Truman had short names, for which headlines weren’t a problem. Eisenhower had a long name, but was referred to in headlines as “Ike”. Around the time of Jimmy Carter, people stopped referring to public figures with their middle initials. So if you _had_ been inclined to call Carter JEC or Reagan RWR, no one would have known whom you were talking about. Besides which, their names were only six letters long. Also besides which, banner headlines went out of fashion, as people came to rely on television for breaking stories. Theodore Roosevelt as TR is different, since so far as I know it wasn’t used by headline writers. It seems to have taken off since the Brands biography. He had a long first name and a long last name, and you have to use both to distinguish him from the other Roosevelt, so this shorthand has obvious value for historians. I suspect it’s more common today than when he was alive. As for W, it’s hard for it to mean much by itself. If I said I was going to compare the foreign policies of FDR, Carter, and W, I would sound weird. But then, historians will have the same problem that we do in distinguishing him from his father. To call his father G.H.W. Bush is both clumsy and anachronistic, since nobody referred to him that way while he was in office. So who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/7 "2008-12-06T09:10:14Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > To call his father G.H.W. Bush is both clumsy and anachronistic, since nobody referred to him that way while he was in office. So who knows. Well, Bush 41 and Bush 43 seem to have some inertia behind them, at least as blog headline-ese. Maybe ‘Bush’ without disambiguation will simply refer to W, given that GHWB was a one-term wonder who didn’t leave much worthy of a historian’s notice. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/8 "2008-12-06T12:40:31Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Explanation by a former J (Journalism) student: It had nothing to do with the value of a president, but with how many spaces it took to spell out his name. F’rinstance, “Johnson” took up, as I recall, seven spaces, while “LBJ” used only three. That left the headline writer four extra spaces. Joel Achenbach, who used to write the ‘Why Things Are’ column in the Washington Post, also gave this explanation. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/9 "2008-12-06T13:45:56Z")
All of the above having been said, I think Lyndon Johnson went out of his way to be known as LBJ. His spread in Texas was the LBJ Ranch. His wife, the former Claudia Taylor, was known as Lady Bird Johnson. His daughters were Lynda Bird Johnson and Luci Baines Johnson. He truly loved his initials. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/10 "2008-12-06T14:15:41Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Added: HST for Truman was pretty much the same – except that it has a very narrow continuing usage in some histories. And Truman’s middle initial didn’t stand for anything. He’s the only person I know of who had a middle initial but no middle name. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/11 "2008-12-06T14:18:27Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > And Truman’s middle initial didn’t stand for anything. He’s the only person I know of who had a middle initial but no middle name. I’ve known several people like that, and even a couple who had only two initials instead of a first and middle name. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/12 "2008-12-06T15:05:31Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > given that GHWB was a one-term wonder who didn’t leave much worthy of a historian’s notice. other than running a successful, short war, with minimal casualties and considerable international support, in defence of the basic principle that one country does not unilaterally invade another country? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/13 "2008-12-06T15:25:54Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > other than running a successful, short war, with minimal casualties and considerable international support, in defence of the basic principle that one country does not unilaterally invade another country? See? He didn’t do much _of interest_. Well-behaved presidents who don’t attempt to rewrite the whole system in favor of unchecked executive branch powers, including warrantless wiretapping and indefinite detention of ‘statusless’ prisoners, don’t get many inches of text in the history books. He didn’t even set any records related to approval ratings. Compare Carter to Nixon, or Hayes to Grant. GHWB was the guy the Republicans went with because [Amon-Reagan](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30216) couldn’t run for a third term and the country went with because Willie Horton and Lee Atwater made a compelling team. W, on the other hand, polarized the country, rewrote our foreign policy, remade our image abroad, and is sure to generate revelations for the next few decades as people die and/or go beyond the reach of extradition treaties. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/14 "2008-12-06T16:06:52Z")
> [@ChrisBooth12](#): > > i think W or Dubya will stand the length of time. It will morph into S.O.B. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/15 "2008-12-06T19:46:41Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > DDE was not common but not totally rare either, for Eisenhower. I haven’t seen it used to any significant extent, though, since around 1970. > > Added: HST for Truman was pretty much the same – except that it has a very narrow continuing usage in some histories. Actually he was referred to as Ike more commonly. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/16 "2008-12-06T20:42:38Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > And Truman’s middle initial didn’t stand for anything. He’s the only person I know of who had a middle initial but no middle name. It’s quite common. On government badges, it will be succeeded by I.O. (initial only). There is also a check box on many forms to signify this is the case, so it’s at least common enough that people find it worthwhile to design forms around it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/17 "2008-12-06T21:03:28Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > other than running a successful, short war, with minimal casualties and considerable international support, in defence of the basic principle that one country does not unilaterally invade another country? > [@Derleth](#): > > See? He didn’t do much _of interest_. Well-behaved presidents who don’t attempt to rewrite the whole system in favor of unchecked executive branch powers, including warrantless wiretapping and indefinite detention of ‘statusless’ prisoners, don’t get many inches of text in the history books. He didn’t even set any records related to approval ratings. Compare Carter to Nixon, or Hayes to Grant. > > GHWB was the guy the Republicans went with because [Amon-Reagan](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30216) couldn’t run for a third term and the country went with because Willie Horton and Lee Atwater made a compelling team. W, on the other hand, polarized the country, rewrote our foreign policy, remade our image abroad, and is sure to generate revelations for the next few decades as people die and/or go beyond the reach of extradition treaties. [Moderating] Let’s leave the political commentary out of this please, and stick to the OP. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/18 "2008-12-06T21:04:13Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > It will morph into S.O.B. Same goes for this one. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/19 "2008-12-06T22:27:23Z")
Many people don’t know this but Abraham Lincoln prefered to go by his initials and often humorously told people to “Call me Al.” Tragically, this was decades before Paul Simon’s birth and there is no record of anyone getting the President’s joke in his lifetime. Secretary of War Stanton, in particular, was bewildered. “Why does the President keep calling me Betty?” he’d ask. “My name’s Ed.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955/20 "2008-12-06T23:00:46Z")
I’m reading a biography of TR’s daughter, Alice Roosevelt Longworth, and it seems he disliked being called “Teddy”, and actually preferred being called “TR”, or something to that effect. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-who-went-by-their-initials/475955.md?page=2)