# Presidents with Criminal (Arrest) Records **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 10, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492 "2004-03-10T15:19:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/1 "2004-03-10T15:19:16Z")
Okay, I am not wanting to start a debate, which is why I’m posting in GQ. It is documented that GW Bush was arrested (twice, IIRC) in college for pranks that ran afoul. It is also documented that he was arrested for DUI in Maine in the early 1980’s. I think Clinton was arrested while protesting the Vietnam War, but I could be wrong. My question is whether any other US presidents have had criminal records. I am looking for facts, not for a debate. If you want to debate, I’m sure there’s a thread in GD with would cover this. If you wish to cast personal invectives on either of the individuals mentioned above, feel to use the Pit. By the way, did I mention I do not want a debate? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/2 "2004-03-10T15:42:59Z")
In most places DUI does not count as having a criminal record any more than a speeding ticket would. It is a traffic offense, although a very serious one. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/3 "2004-03-10T15:49:14Z")
Not a president, but John Kerry has an arrest record from protesting the Vietnam War. I’m sure he’s not ashamed of that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/4 "2004-03-10T16:17:31Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > In most places DUI does not count as having a criminal record any more than a speeding ticket would. It is a traffic offense, although a very serious one. I’d like a cite for this, please. In Wisconsin, for example, > [@](#): > > 939.12 Crime defined. A crime is conduct which is prohibited by state law and punishable by fine or imprisonment or both. Conduct punishable only by a forfeiture is not a crime. DUI is punishable by jail time, fines or both. Thus it’s a crime. Crimes generally go on one’s criminal record. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/5 "2004-03-10T16:28:25Z")
You might also want to differentiate between “arrests,” “convictions,” “deferred adjudication,” “uncontested payment of fine,” etc. I’m never sure which of these are, or are not, the basis for a “criminal record” (which is probably not a surprise, given that “criminal record” is likely not a uniformly-defined term of art). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/6 "2004-03-10T17:07:56Z")
Ulysses S. Grant was arrested _while in office_: > [@](#): > > As President, Grant was himself an honest man. When he was arrested for speeding around Washington D.C. in a horse and buggy, he told the police officer, “Do your duty, my good man,” and eventually paid a fine. [http://www.presidentialmuseums.com/Presidents/18.htm](http://www.presidentialmuseums.com/Presidents/18.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/7 "2004-03-10T18:13:53Z")
Franklin Pierce was arrested while in office also, for trampling an old lady with his horse. [http://www.potus.com/fpierce.html](http://www.potus.com/fpierce.html) The case was dismissed for lack of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![KP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a9adbd/32.png) [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/8 "2004-03-10T19:40:40Z")
> [@](#): > > DUI is punishable by jail time, fines or both. Thus it’s a crime. Crimes generally go on one’s criminal record. IANAL, but I’d say this is a poor definition of “a crime”. I’d argue that a better definition would be “a violation of a criminal law statute,” which excludes many traffic offenses in many states esp in the past. people have been arrested or spent a weekend in jail for [allegedly] having a single overdue library book (Try googling [“arrested” “over due library”](http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&q=%22arrested%22+%22overdue+library%22&btnG=Google+Search) or [“arrested” “library fines”](http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&q=%22arrested%22+%22library+fines%22&btnG=Google+Search)) Arrest warrants can be issued for many things that we do not consider crimes: a state legislator failing to appear for some votes of some state legislatures; failing to report for jury selection (whether or not it is a ‘crime’ in that jurisdiction]. There is also no monolithic “criminal record”: what you see on a report depends on the source of the report, and the reporting sources. I wouldn’t expect to see “Failure to pay a library fine” in an NCIC (FBI) report, but I would not be surprised to see it in many state reports, and NCIC is known for not cleaning up the information it recieves from the states. Even the “criminal code” definition is a compromise. I’m not qualified to address finer points embedded in the laws themselves (e.g. statutes in the criminal code that refer to certain acts as “unlawful” and others as “illegal”), but I’m sure a lawyer could argue that some offenses in the criminal codes aren’t “really crimes” Current cites of DUI laws may not be germane. A (viable) presidential candidate generally has to have kept a fairly clean record for the past decade or two, and the law regarded drunk driving quite differently 20 years ago. If it wasn’t a ‘crime’ at the time, isn’t it a bit unfair to call it one decades later? [We know that internal combustion engines are bad for the planet; in 20 years, they may be considered “self evident” crimes against humanity. Societal values change.) In fact, the terms DUI/DWI generally arose after changes in the law. While they were used earlier in some jurisdictions, they spread nationally after the states began revising their laws, partly as the result of a campaign led by MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving), founded in 1980 out of a mother’s outrage at the leniency of the sentence for the drunk driver who killed her child. The first “Drunk Driving Awareness Week” to change public attitudes was in December 1982. Before then (when almost all pre-President arrests would have taken place) drunk driving was often charged as a traffic offense (e.g. “weaving in traffic”, “reckless driving”) and often taken casually. Attitudes didn’t always change as rapidly as the laws, either, and I know of cases that were treated as traffic offenses in the late 80s, in states where a heavier charge could (or should) have been levied. Campus police also see a large fraction of youthful DUIs and generally didn’t refer them for criminal prosecution until the late 80s or 90s. Should we allow ourselves to speculate on what various Presidents could or should have been charged with, to decide if their arrest was for a “crime” or not? “Drunk walking” is a crime in many states. Even sitting, drunk, on your front stoop can be “public inebriation” in most cities (which may be a criminal or civil offense). Clearly, enforcement (arrests) for these offenses is fairly selective (I think most of our presidents, like most of us, have probably stumbled into a cab drunk at some point in their lives) My point? One man’s crime is another man’s civil offense. We need a cut-off . I think the “criminal code criterion” is as good a compromise as any. Some cites: [‘Driving under influence’ culture more lenient during 1970s](http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/03/dui.culture/) [CNN] Allen, TC. (1991). A study of university students regarding driving under the influence. Campus Law Enforcement Journal 21(2):34-35. Jones, RK; and Joscelyn, KB. (1978). Alcohol and highway safety 1978: A review of the state-of-knowledge. Washington, DC: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Jones, RK; and Lacey, JT (1989). Alcohol and highway safety 1989: A review of the state of knowledge. Washington, DC: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. 1988 Surgeon General"s Workshop on Drunk Driving: “in most jurisdictions, fewer than one in 1,000 [drunk drivers] are apprehended [for driving while intoxicated]” Quoted in [“Drunk Driving, The Legal Criteria”](http://www.aapa.org/policy/drunk-driving.html), policy manual of the AAPA ---
**Author:** ![Ottoerotic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6de8d8/32.png) [@Ottoerotic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ottoerotic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/9 "2004-03-10T20:50:52Z")
[My hat is off to you KB.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4626668#post4626668) ---
**Author:** ![Ottoerotic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6de8d8/32.png) [@Ottoerotic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ottoerotic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/10 "2004-03-10T20:55:07Z")
Correction, KP. not KB. Sorry for the Hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/11 "2004-03-10T21:49:13Z")
> [@KP](#): > > IANAL, but I’d say this is a poor definition of “a crime”. I encourage you then to take it up with the legislature of the state of Wisconsin. I quoted Wisconsin statute chapter 939.12, which is how the word “crime” is defined in the state of Wisconsin. Also in the state of Wisconsin, driving while intoxicated (after the first offense) is a “crime” under the statutory definition. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/12 "2004-03-11T00:06:45Z")
George Washington was a traitor and a rebel. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/13 "2004-03-11T02:18:06Z")
Was Grant arrested? A show on (IIRC) the History Channel mentioned this incident, but it said that the officer impounded Grant’s horse. Grant had to pay a fine to get it back. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/14 "2004-03-11T16:56:47Z")
> [@qts](#): > > George Washington was a traitor and a rebel. 😃 I kinda took that into consideration. For that matter, Jefferson and Adams (2) were tried and convicted _in absentia_ by the crown for treason. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/presidents-with-criminal-arrest-records/233492/15 "2004-03-11T16:58:44Z")
For the purposes of this inquiry, I would let criminal record = arrest record.