# Pretentious Art Rock of the 70s **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 2, 2001, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380 "2001-09-02T03:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/43a26b/32.png) [@Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallace_The_Lad)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/21 "2015-06-07T15:21:48Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > What’s interesting to me, though, is how readily critics equated organs and mellotrons and orchestra with “pompousness” and “pretentiousness.” Pompousness and pretentiousness are STATES OF MIND, not a style of music. > > Stark, simple music can be INCREDIBLY pretentious. Correct! Peter Townsend said we should construct huge letters of the “p” word then burn it all to the ground. Extinguish its usage from English forever. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/22 "2015-06-07T15:37:59Z")
> [@Dragon\_Phoenix](#): > > And no-one has mentioned Camel yet? > [@Montfort](#): > > How can a prog rock thread mention Camel and not “The Snow Goose”? I was thinking “Holy crap, other Dopers that have heard of Camel! Where have you guys been?” Then I noticed the date on the thread. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/23 "2015-06-07T15:48:41Z")
> [@Wallace\_The\_Lad](#): > > Your knowledge of prog then is rudimentary. > > Although it is a myth that prog is mainly themed around dragons & wizards, there are many bands around the world named after Tolkien- American included : > Isildur’s Bane > Rivendell > Nazgul > Valinor’s Tree > Minus Tirith > Shadowfax > Ainur > Mithrandir Rather than me exercising my Google muscle, how about you let us know which of these are **American** bands? After all, from the passage you quoted (emphasis added): > [@dropzone](#): > > This seems to have been a British phenomenon. I’m hard pressed to think of any **American** bands doing that fusion of Celtic folk, romantic classical, and Tolkien ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/24 "2015-06-07T15:53:40Z")
_Johnny 99_, _State Trooper_, _Reason to Believe_ and _Atlantic City_ from **Nebraska** are sheer genius in comparison to the self-indulgent garbage put out by bands like Yes and The Moody Blues. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/25 "2015-06-07T16:02:34Z")
> [@Myrr21](#): > > _gasp_ > > That’s a crime against nature. And rock. Of course. That was the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/26 "2015-06-07T16:06:21Z")
> [@Wallace\_The\_Lad](#): > > Your knowledge of prog then is rudimentary. It’s possible his knowledge has expanded in the 14 years since he posted that. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/27 "2015-06-07T16:11:09Z")
> [@Chas.E](#): > > Way back when, I used to have a concert tshirt from Yes. When punk broke, I spray painted NO across the band logo, tore it to shreds, and then reassembled it with safety pins. Boy you shoulda seen how people reacted when I wore it… My 14-year-old niece loves prog and can pick Steve Howe’s guitar playing out of a crowd. I’ll have to tell her this story! Her favorite band, BTW, is Queen. ETA: I didn’t notice that the thread is as old as she is until I saw the previous post. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/28 "2015-06-07T16:20:37Z")
Reminding me once again that the Ramones really did save rock n’ roll. Thanks guys. ---
**Author:** ![Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/43a26b/32.png) [@Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallace_The_Lad)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/29 "2015-06-07T16:31:05Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Rather than me exercising my Google muscle, how about you let us know which of these are **American** bands? After all, from the passage you quoted (emphasis added): Shadowfax were American. They are an instrumental fusiony-prog. The first lp, Watercourse Way is incredible. Maybe a bit along lines of Mahavishnu Orchestra. Later lps they go newagey, but still in a good/listenable way. Mithrandir - very good US prog Isildur’s Bane - Dutch , if I remember correctly, first 4 lps are good, some of later cds also Nazgul - mystery (possibly fake Krautrock) band Valinor’s Tree - swedish ---
**Author:** ![Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/43a26b/32.png) [@Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallace_The_Lad)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/30 "2015-06-07T16:38:18Z")
Here are some select Tolkien-theme tracks by US prog bands (all from lps): Arkangel - march of Ents Black Sun Ensemble -riders of Rohan Citadel of Cynosure - escaping Nepthon Creef - Took (think they were Canadian) St Elmo’s Fire - contortions of Balrog Neon Philharmonic - - I forget the title Pearls Before Swine - ringthing Seguin - Galadriel (Quebec) Vulcan’s hammer - Grey Havens (didnt look it up- possibly UK, not US) ---
**Author:** ![Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/43a26b/32.png) [@Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallace_The_Lad)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/31 "2015-06-07T16:46:52Z")
Isildur’s Bane are Swedish, not Dutch. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/32 "2015-06-07T16:49:22Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Reminding me once again that the Ramones really did save rock n’ roll. > > Thanks guys. Except for the fact that they were never that popular; and their songbook is mixed at best. IMO, they were a power pop band with some great hooks. ---
**Author:** ![Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/43a26b/32.png) [@Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallace_The_Lad)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/33 "2015-06-07T21:09:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s possible his knowledge has expanded in the 14 years since he posted that. I’m not holding my breath. He likely still rates Porcupine Tree, Radiohead, Tool,Mars Volta,Dream Theatre,Rush…ad nauseum,high on the “prog” totem. As do you and the remainder of this forum. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/34 "2015-06-07T21:44:38Z")
'tis admirable you have taken upon yourself to uphold the honor of Prog in a thread that had lain dormant and forgotten for _ **fourteen years.** _ ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/35 "2015-06-07T21:58:07Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > I was thinking “Holy crap, other Dopers that have heard of Camel! Where have you guys been?” Then I noticed the date on the thread. 😃 I remember Camel, barely. Listening to _The Snow Goose_ for the first time. It’s the sort of shit I’d listen to. 😃 > [@Wallace\_The\_Lad](#): > > Your knowledge of prog then is rudimentary. Wow! You joined specifically to insult me? I’m honored! And yes, my knowledge of Prog is not as great as yours, Master. My tastes are more eclectic than obsessive, then I got married in 1976 and there went spending all of my money on records. > [@](#): > > Although it is a myth that prog is mainly themed around dragons & wizards, there are many bands around the world named after Tolkien- American included : > Isildur’s Bane > Rivendell > Nazgul > Valinor’s Tree > Minus Tirith > Shadowfax > Ainur > Mithrandir Who? And what’s your point? Never mind; I don’t care. > [@Smapti](#): > > It’s possible his knowledge has expanded in the 14 years since he posted that. > [@Wallace\_The\_Lad](#): > > I’m not holding my breath. As noted above, my knowledge and interests are constantly expanding, but Prog is still a part of my playlist. [QUOTE=Wallace The Lad] He likely still rates Porcupine Tree, Radiohead, Tool,Mars Volta,Dream Theatre,Rush…ad nauseum,high on the “prog” totem. As do you and the remainder of this forum. [/QUOTE] Except for Radiohead and Rush, I have never heard of those bands. I like Radiohead some, but don’t much like Rush and don’t see why they are considered Prog instead of some pop-ish sort of hard rock. But I don’t much care because I like all sorts of crap and am not stuck, like you seem to be. ---
**Author:** ![Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/43a26b/32.png) [@Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallace_The_Lad)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/36 "2015-06-07T22:00:25Z")
Yes ,this forum has truely lapsed and it is a Masterman’s DUTY to at least attempt set things on the correct path. Thank you Mr Delirious: we -few of us - rarely get recognition as you have just given so freely. A thankless pastime - I would not demean it by pinning it with the ball-and-chain appellation of …“job”. ---
**Author:** ![Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/43a26b/32.png) [@Wallace\_The\_Lad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallace_The_Lad)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/37 "2015-06-07T22:08:52Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I like all sorts of crap and am not stuck, like you seem to be. Disregarding the word “crap”, I should invest you with one fact: it behooves - no, it is MANDITORY that a Prog Masterman be fluent in all ancillary genres: specifically classical musics and fusion. Certain things like hiphoppery and country are so far removed from prog as to set the Masterman free of the obligation to learn their filth. My collection is vast on electronic music, folk, folkrock as well as aforementioned. I am very well-rounded, so please do not come back at me with this approach again. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/38 "2015-06-07T22:24:00Z")
That was some fine countersarcasm, bravo (For those following at home: yes, as you probably imagined my post was intended to scorn the Lad for bothering). The “Someone On the Internet is Wrong” mode is no way to go through life. But more immediately: what the \*&^%$# is a “Masterman”? Sounds like a character from a 1980s cartoon. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/39 "2015-06-07T22:58:16Z")
Earlier today, I stopped at a local food truck that sells crepes, and heard Yes’ “Your Move/All Good People” on the radio. Because I had “The Yes Album” already loaded in my car stereo, I listened to it again on the way home. 🆒 [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/m1I4Q6Px_78/maxresdefault.jpg "Yes ~ I've Seen All Good People: Your Move (1971)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1I4Q6Px_78) ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380/40 "2015-06-07T23:05:19Z")
I’m a fan of _The Zombies_, but they are more pop than prog. Fuck I hate old threads. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pretentious-art-rock-of-the-70s/79380.md?page=3)