# Price for gun rights is paid in PA. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005 "2009-04-04T22:55:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/561 "2009-04-11T17:38:07Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You wouldn’t expect a man to only keep one saw in his toolshed, would you? 😛 If all the man has is a toolshed full of hammers, it is no longer a toolshed-it is a fetish closet. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/562 "2009-04-11T17:42:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If all the man has is a toolshed full of hammers, it is no longer a toolshed-it is a fetish closet. And when he starts getting his handles monogramed and encrusted with precious jewels, then you seriously start worrying. The next step is giving your hammer a name! ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/563 "2009-04-11T17:44:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Because two guns will stop twice as many threats, four guns will stop four times as many threats, and a closet _full_ of guns makes you damn near impervious to all threats, right? How many different tools might you find in a toolbox? Not all firearms are equal at all tasks. You don’t go hunting with a [P22.](http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=58954&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=43804&isFirearm=Y) You go to the range and practice sight picture, breathing, and trigger technique. You don’t keep a [Winchester Model 70 LRH Laredo](http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124913504#PIC) for home defense. You take it out for Elk and Bear. Some police depts. use it as a sniper’s/sharpshooter’s weapon. You don’t take a [Taurus PT99](http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=399&category=Pistol) to a [S.A.S.S.](http://www.sassnet.com/) event. You take something like a [Ruger Vaquero,](http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=5121&return=Y) a [Winchester Model 94AE](http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/historic_detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=103&cat=003C), and a [Stoeger.](http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_guns.php) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/564 "2009-04-11T17:54:47Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > How many different tools might you find in a toolbox? > > Not all firearms are equal at all tasks. You don’t go hunting with a [P22.](http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=58954&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=43804&isFirearm=Y) You go to the range and practice sight picture, breathing, and trigger technique. > > You don’t keep a [Winchester Model 70 LRH Laredo](http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124913504#PIC) for home defense. You take it out for Elk and Bear. Some police depts. use it as a sniper’s/sharpshooter’s weapon. > > You don’t take a [Taurus PT99](http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=399&category=Pistol) to a [S.A.S.S.](http://www.sassnet.com/) event. You take something like a [Ruger Vaquero,](http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=5121&return=Y) a [Winchester Model 94AE](http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/historic_detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=103&cat=003C), and a [Stoeger.](http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger_coach_guns.php) Damn, those goalposts sure move fast, don’t they? Here is the _original_ quote I commented on: [QUOTE=Crafter\_Man] Guns are very effective & efficient tools for stopping threats. Which is why I own so many of them. [/QUOTE] We are talking about a large number of guns for the sole purpose of _stopping threats_, not some for target practice, some for hunting big game, some for hunting small game, some for skeet shooting, some for target practice, and some for stopping threats. He made the claim that he needed “so many” guns for the purpose of stopping threats. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/565 "2009-04-11T18:02:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He made the claim that he needed “so many” guns for the purpose of stopping threats. Of course. I have a .50 BMG rifle for stopping threats 1000 yards and beyond, numerous bolt action weapons for stopping threats between 500 and 800 yards, a couple main battle rifles (MBRs) for stopping threats between 20 and 500 yards, shotguns for stopping threats less than 20 yards, and handguns for stopping unexpected threats while afoot. Why have extra weapons of the same type? Two reasons: 1) Reliability. If one weapon fails, grab another. 2) Ability to lend weapons to family and friends should the need arise. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/566 "2009-04-11T18:16:02Z")
> [@crafter\_man](#): > > of course. I have a .50 bmg rifle for stopping threats 1000 yards and beyond, numerous bolt action weapons for stopping threats between 500 and 800 yards, a couple main battle rifles (mbrs) for stopping threats between 20 and 500 yards, shotguns for stopping threats less than 20 yards, and handguns for stopping unexpected threats while afoot. Why have extra weapons of the same type? Two reasons: 1) reliability. If one weapon fails, grab another. 2) ability to lend weapons to family and friends should the need arise. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/567 "2009-04-11T18:23:56Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Of course. I have a .50 BMG rifle for stopping threats 1000 yards and beyond, numerous bolt action weapons for stopping threats between 500 and 800 yards, a couple main battle rifles (MBRs) for stopping threats between 20 and 500 yards, shotguns for stopping threats less than 20 yards, and handguns for stopping unexpected threats while afoot. Why have extra weapons of the same type? Two reasons: 1) Reliability. If one weapon fails, grab another. 2) Ability to lend weapons to family and friends should the need arise. Sonofabitch! Just as a matter of curiosity on my part, would you mind giving me _your_ definition of “gun nut”? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/568 "2009-04-11T18:38:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sonofabitch! > Just as a matter of curiosity on my part, would you mind giving me _your_ definition of “gun nut”? A self-proclaimed member of the gun culture who doesn’t own enough guns and ammo. Now that’s \*nuts \*to me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/569 "2009-04-11T18:49:09Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > A self-proclaimed member of the gun culture who doesn’t own enough guns and ammo. Now that’s \*nuts \*to me. 😃 That’s funny-_I’d_ define a gun nut as someone who has stocked enough armament to outfit a neighborhood, and will happily do so _as long as those in the neighborhood believe as he does politically_. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/570 "2009-04-11T19:06:14Z")
Well in all seriousness, **Czarcasm** , there are a lot of us out there. More than you think. It’s difficult for me to engage in a logical discussion on the “whys” of it. It’s difficult for me to provide precise answers as to \*why \*I have this-or-that weapon, \*why \*I have lots of ammo, or \*why \*I have a basement full of survival supplies & equipment. Something tell me, “Do it, and your family, friends and country will thank you later for it.” Yea yea, I \*know \*it all sounds wacko. But I assure you I’m as sane as they come. 😛 As mentioned, there are a _ **lot** _ of us out there, and I’m a small potato compared to most. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/571 "2009-04-11T19:11:46Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Well in all seriousness, **Czarcasm** , there are a lot of us out there. More than you think. 1. Believe me, I take it _very_ seriously. 2. When you say us, do you mean those who stockpile more than they can personally use, or those who will fight for the same causes you personally believe in? “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is not a recipe for success, imho. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/572 "2009-04-11T19:11:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sonofabitch! > Just as a matter of curiosity on my part, would you mind giving me _your_ definition of “gun nut”? I expect my collection would distress you even more than his does. FTR I consider a person a gun nut if one or both of the following apply: 1. Falls short on other responsibilities because too much income is diverted into guns. 2. Considers guns the solution to more than a very, very limited set of problems; all of which should involve personal safety or that of loved ones. That would include rogue government. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/573 "2009-04-11T19:19:32Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Of course. I have a .50 BMG rifle for stopping threats 1000 yards and beyond, numerous bolt action weapons for stopping threats between 500 and 800 yards, a couple main battle rifles (MBRs) for stopping threats between 20 and 500 yards, shotguns for stopping threats less than 20 yards, and handguns for stopping unexpected threats while afoot. Why have extra weapons of the same type? Two reasons: 1) Reliability. If one weapon fails, grab another. 2) Ability to lend weapons to family and friends should the need arise. Was this NOT a joke? I’m curious how you determine a threat more than a thousand yards away. Are your lands that big? If you saw someone creeping around with a gun, there’s a pretty good chance they going for someone else, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/574 "2009-04-11T19:19:36Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I expect my collection would distress you even more than his does. > > FTR I consider a person a gun nut if one or both of the following apply: > > 1. Falls short on other responsibilities because too much income is diverted into guns. > 2. Considers guns the solution to more than a very, very limited set of problems; all of which should involve personal safety or that of loved ones. That would include rogue government. Yet again, what if the neighbor down the street has his or her _own_ personal arsenal, but a different definition of “rogue government”? Why do y’all keep assuming that the battle will be between "T_H_E M_A_N and you brave brave bunch of “freedom fighters”, when in all likelihood you will also be fighting against both the dude with the different idea of due diligence and the egomaniac who sees an opportunity to become a big fish in a small pond? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/575 "2009-04-11T19:29:08Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’m curious how you determine a threat more than a thousand yards away. Ohio is swarming with rogue elephants. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/576 "2009-04-11T19:31:52Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Ohio is swarming with rogue elephants. I thought they _lost_ the election? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/577 "2009-04-11T19:33:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > When you say us, do you mean those who stockpile more than they can personally use, or those who will fight for the same causes you personally believe in? I am very active on a number of gun-related boards. (Much more so than the SDMB.) I’m also active on boards that cater to members of unorganized militias. There are many people who have - Oh, how should I say it? - an “impressive” amount of guns and ammo. _ **Many** _. And I would estimate 98% profess to adhere to the Jeffersonian wing of the libertarian philosophy, in that they have a strong desire for more personal freedom and liberty. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/578 "2009-04-11T19:36:50Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I am very active on a number of gun-related boards. (Much more so than the SDMB.) I’m also active on boards that cater to members of unorganized militias. There are many people who have - Oh, how should I say it? - an “impressive” amount of guns and ammo. _ **Many** _. And I would estimate 98% profess to adhere to the Jeffersonian wing of the libertarian philosophy, in that they have a strong desire for more personal freedom and liberty. What percentage talk the talk but don’t walk the walk? How many do you know personally and would trust at your back in a dark alley? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/579 "2009-04-11T19:37:45Z")
How many do you _know_ are properly trained in the use of weaponry they claim to own? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/580 "2009-04-11T19:37:45Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Was this NOT a joke? Um, no. :dubious: > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’m curious how you determine a threat more than a thousand yards away. Are your lands that big? If you saw someone creeping around with a gun, there’s a pretty good chance they going for someone else, don’t you think? I don’t want to waste time arguing specifics. Let’s just say that I try to keep my bases covered. Furthermore, I’d rather have a certain weapon and not need it, than \*not \*have it… and need it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005.md?page=30)