# Price for gun rights is paid in PA. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005 "2009-04-04T22:55:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/581 "2009-04-11T19:43:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What percentage talk the talk but don’t walk the walk? For the people on the boards? I have no idea. But I operate a citizen’s militia group ([link](http://champaigncounty.tripod.com/id4.html)), and I can tell you first-hand that the vast majority walk the walk. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > How many do you know personally and would trust at your back in a dark alley? There are some bad apples, naturally. But most of the ones I have met, I would trust. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/582 "2009-04-11T19:46:18Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > For the people on the boards? I have no idea. But I operate a citizen’s militia group ([link](http://champaigncounty.tripod.com/id4.html)), and I can tell you first-hand that the vast majority walk the walk. > > There are some bad apples, naturally. But most of the ones I have met, I would trust. You just narrowed your field of reliable true believers from all those message boards you participate in to just those you personally know and train with. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/583 "2009-04-11T19:52:14Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I’d rather have a certain weapon and not need it, than \*not \*have it… and need it. Shouldn’t you be asking your legislators to legalize home SAM installations, then? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/584 "2009-04-11T19:57:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You just narrowed your field of reliable true believers from all those message boards you participate in to just those you personally know and train with. Well gee, how many people do you expect me to meet F2F? There are hundreds of thousands of folks on national guns boards such a The High Road, [AR15.com](http://AR15.com), and The Firing Line, and there are dozens of very active regional boards such as [http://www.ohioccw.org/](http://www.ohioccw.org/). I would estimate that well over 90% have a “Molon Labe” attitude. In other words, I have every reason to suspect they’re just as dedicated to their principles as a militia guy who participates in monthly training exercises. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/585 "2009-04-11T20:00:04Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > What’s your stance on liars? I expect it from you. You twist and lie. Shameful. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/586 "2009-04-11T20:05:16Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I would estimate that well over 90% have a “Molon Labe” attitude. In other words, I have every reason to suspect they’re just as dedicated to their principles as a militia guy who participates in monthly training exercises. I’m assuming you mean the more modern use of that term, rather than the original, which would seem to be more in line with the actions of the person in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/587 "2009-04-11T20:14:09Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I’m assuming you mean the more modern use of that term, rather than the original, which would seem to be more in line with the actions of the person in the OP. Well, yes… we have guns and ammo, we will continue to procure more, and we will never give them up. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/588 "2009-04-11T20:25:05Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Well, yes… we have guns and ammo, we will continue to procure more, and we will never give them up. I suppose my question then is, where’s the line drawn before attempts to take your weapons will be met by you with armed resistance? Is it a factor of which and how many guns are legislated against, for example, and at what point do you see yourself stopping responding by alternate means such as hiding illegalised weapons? “Molon labe” was the response of an army to an army, that ended in warfare. Better total destruction than surrender. My question was basically, given what circumstances does it get to that point for you, and what’s the range on that issue among the particular groups you’re involved with? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/589 "2009-04-11T21:22:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yet again, what if the neighbor down the street has his or her _own_ personal arsenal, but a different definition of “rogue government”? > Why do y’all keep assuming that the battle will be between "T_H_E M_A_N and you brave brave bunch of “freedom fighters”, when in all likelihood you will also be fighting against both the dude with the different idea of due diligence and the egomaniac who sees an opportunity to become a big fish in a small pond? Why do you keep assuming that I, or Crafter Man or others, am ill-schooled enough in history to be unaware that civil wars are often multi-factional? I know it’s convenient for you to lump us all together as a homogeneous mass of armed retards. However, what is convenient for you doesn’t reflect reality. See, your typical gun enthusiast who frequents gun boards is more than aware that getting gun enthusiasts to agree about anything is like herding cats. We aren’t all of the same political persuasion, and we know it. You go on ahead, though, and keep being a condescending douchebag if you figure that role suits you. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/590 "2009-04-11T21:26:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I expect it from you. You twist and lie. Shameful. Crimoney, why doesn’t your tongue rot and fall out of your head from the way you openly and shamelessly lie? Provide the cites, you lying little shitstain, and I promise\_again\_I’ll never breing this up again. Or, admit you lied, and I’ll never bring it up again. You are so utterly lacking in credibility and intellectual honesty that your presence here diminishes everything this board claims to be about. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/591 "2009-04-11T21:50:59Z")
Sorry you can not understand . The proof which you bring only convinces you. It was a puerile attempt at best. Can you say opinion. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/592 "2009-04-11T22:06:27Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Why do you keep assuming that I, or Crafter Man or others, am ill-schooled enough in history to be unaware that civil wars are often multi-factional? I know it’s convenient for you to lump us all together as a homogeneous mass of armed retards. However, what is convenient for you doesn’t reflect reality. > See, your typical gun enthusiast who frequents gun boards is more than aware that getting gun enthusiasts to agree about anything is like herding cats. We aren’t all of the same political persuasion, and we know it. > You go on ahead, though, and keep being a condescending douchebag if you figure that role suits you. Hell, amongst gun owners, all you have to say is, “.45 vs. 9mm” to start a flamewar that makes a SDMB Gun Debate look like a pillow fight. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/593 "2009-04-11T22:34:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Cars and their operators are tested and licensed, and there are heavy restrictions as to what type of vehicle you may drive where and when. > I ask that you drop this idiotic comparison between the use of cars and guns, unless you either call for like restrictions on gun use, or the complete elimination of all driving laws. And I would ask that you stop being such a miserable twat, but since it seems to be pretty ingrained in your personality I’d most likely just be wasting my time. I’ll ask you the same thing I asked **gonzomax** : did you make any attempt to understand **Lumpy’s** analogy, or did your knee break through your desk jerking at the fact that “car” and “gun” were in such close proximity? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/594 "2009-04-11T22:36:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If all the man has is a toolshed full of hammers, it is no longer a toolshed-it is a fetish closet. So what of the person who has a regular hammer, a tack hammer, and a sledgehammer in his toolshed? Is he prepared, or just a hammer nut with a small penis? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/595 "2009-04-11T22:45:40Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > So what of the person who has a regular hammer, a tack hammer, and a sledgehammer in his toolshed? Is he prepared, or just a hammer nut with a small penis? That depends-are these tools he uses on a regular basis, or items he drooled over in _American Hammer Monthly_? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/596 "2009-04-11T23:04:29Z")
I never understood why people get offended and snarky about the gun collections of others. I mean, I wouldn’t laugh at their collections of Hello Kitty merchandise, or whatever it is wimps collect when they’re not busy failing to defend freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/597 "2009-04-11T23:15:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Cars and their operators are tested and licensed, and there are heavy restrictions as to what type of vehicle you may drive where and when. > I ask that you drop this idiotic comparison between the use of cars and guns, unless you either call for like restrictions on gun use, or the complete elimination of all driving laws. Actually, only cars/drivers _ **on public roads** _ are tested and licensed. And the cars only licensed for tax & emissions purposes. So, the analogy is still correct, in fact, I made it earlier, that carrying in public should be very similar to driving a car in public. Licenses issued as asked, unless reason is presented otherwise, which can be challenged in court (Shall-Issue). > [@Czarcasm](#): > > That depends-are these tools he uses on a regular basis, or items he drooled over in _American Hammer Monthly_? All of mine are used on a regular basis. Although, admittedly, some have fell out of regular use due to restraints of land, and the fact that I don’t currently have all the firearms I want. 1. Pistol - Weekly / Biweekly target practice, great fun and very cathardic. 2. Shotgun - Skeet, haven’t been able to go in a while though. Not a ton of places around here. 3. Semiautomatic, Box Fed .223 (FS2000, if you’re curious) - Target practice on a monthly basis, sometimes more or less often. Further than the Pistol, not as far as ‘long range,’ sub-100m. Great fun, cathardic. 4. Bolt Action Rifle / SubMOA - Don’t have one at the moment, sadly. No land for me to use it on. But when I find a range with 100-200m+ distances in my local area, I’ll go on the lookout, long range shooting is great fun. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yet again, what if the neighbor down the street has his or her _own_ personal arsenal, but a different definition of “rogue government”? Then we end up on the other end of eachothers firearms. The **only** reason I’d be inclined to use my firearms, however, would be defense of home and property. As in ‘theyre coming to take away xx member of my family, get a gun and lets gtfo.’ > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why do y’all keep assuming that the battle will be between "T_H_E M_A_N and you brave brave bunch of “freedom fighters”, when in all likelihood you will also be fighting against both the dude with the different idea of due diligence and the egomaniac who sees an opportunity to become a big fish in a small pond? _ **You** _ assume 1) that we’re all a uniform group of drooling armed idiots, we’re not, 2) that we plan on going into battle. Most of us never plan on going into battle at all, but using our guns for self defense of home against a) intruders threatening the family (burglars, for instance), b) tyrannical government (domestic), c) invading armies. Admiral Yamamoto, Admiral & Commander-in-Chief of the Japanese Navy in WW2: “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a man with a rifle behind every blade of grass.” Admittedly not the only reason they didn’t invade, but it illustrates (c). > [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I suppose my question then is, where’s the line drawn before attempts to take your weapons will be met by you with armed resistance? Any. You’ll, literally, take my guns from my cold, dead hands. > [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Is it a factor of which and how many guns are legislated against, for example, and at what point do you see yourself stopping responding by alternate means such as hiding illegalised weapons? I would not walk into a police station and shoot it up, if that’s what you mean. Nor would I tell people ‘i gots me sum gunz at my house,’ in order to make the police come. I would simply keep my firearms, and not tell anyone I had them. If the police tried to search my house, I’d ask for a search warrant, and make sure they were well hidden. > [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > “Molon labe” was the response of an army to an army, that ended in warfare. Better total destruction than surrender. My question was basically, given what circumstances does it get to that point for you, and what’s the range on that issue among the particular groups you’re involved with? Better to die as a free man, than to live as a slave. > [@gonzomax](#): > > Sorry you can not understand . The proof which you bring only convinces you. It was a puerile attempt at best. Can you say opinion. No, his proof was quite convincing in general. You bald faced lied about the pistols, and refuse to even acknowledge it. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/598 "2009-04-11T23:17:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I never understood why people get offended and snarky about the gun collections of others. I mean, I wouldn’t laugh at their collections of Hello Kitty merchandise, or whatever it is wimps collect when they’re not busy failing to defend freedom. People fear that which they do not understand. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/599 "2009-04-11T23:32:26Z")
Yeah, those Hello Kitty eyes… they, like, _follow you_, man! (at this point, the entire discussion is too polarized and nonsensical for me to take seriously) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/600 "2009-04-12T00:25:19Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Hell, amongst gun owners, all you have to say is, “.45 vs. 9mm” to start a flamewar that makes a SDMB Gun Debate look like a pillow fight. What happens to the .40/ .41/ 10mm fans? 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005.md?page=31)