# Price for gun rights is paid in PA. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005 "2009-04-04T22:55:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/161 "2009-04-06T05:52:50Z")
Tiger Tamer, you’ve got a lot of nerve telling me to go away. Who the fuck are you? God? You’re nothing - you mean nothing to me - I don’t care what you tell me to do, because it doesn’t matter. If I stay or go, it’s up to me, not you. If what was working fifty years isn’t working now, maybe you can find it in your heart to admit that it’s not the guns and the NRA that’s the problem, it’s whatever ELSE has changed in the country in those 50 years. Maybe those things are what we need to fix, instead of making it more of a pain in the ass for a law abiding person to buy a gun. I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about with the “fear” stuff. Do you have a fire extinguisher in your hose because you’re afraid of fire, or because you’re prepared for fire? Do you have a shotgun in your house because you’re afraid of a break-in or because you’re prepared for a break-in? Fear and preparedness, what’s the difference? Preparedness isn’t the only reason to own a gun - there are others, of course, the “sporting purposes” like hunting and target shooting. When it comes down to it, whatever reason someone has for wanting to get a gun, they have the right to do so, as long as they’re not a criminal. That right is in our constitution. The anti gun movement does everything they can to chip away at it, and they use shit like these shooting incidents as their excuse - ignoring the fact that criminals and crazy people still manage to get guns that they should not by law be allowed to have, day after day, year after year. The NRA is trying to prevent the anti-gun movement from enacting more stupid, stupid, stupid laws against gun ownership. The laws clearly don’t work. The places with the most gun laws also tend to have a shitload of crime, and that’s all the proof you need to see how pointless they are. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanTigerTamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e5b9ba/32.png) [@SuntanTigerTamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanTigerTamer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/162 "2009-04-06T05:54:19Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Are we reading the same responses? What I’ve seen is **Argent** defending his position and people ignoring anything he says that makes him look like a reasonable person, because Guns Are Teh Bad and no-one could possibly want to own one unless they’re a redneck, paranoid loner, or underendowed. Actually, I and others have refuted him point by point, and instead of responding to our points, he said he quit, then came back, and now who knows? So yeah, are we reading the same responses? Or maybe you have just been skipping those that disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/163 "2009-04-06T06:08:38Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > This is an empirical assertion and you should accordingly be prepared to document the truth of your claim. Please do. For bonus points, explain why no enterprising media outlet would take a contrarian pro-gun stance to capture market share (_q.v._ the Fox News network). I’m not **Monster** , but I’ll give this one a whack just off the top of my head. Virtually every time a journalist uses one of the following terms describing a crime in the US, he is demonstrating an anti-gun bias: “assault weapon,” “high-capacity magazine,” “high-powered rifle (or handgun),” “AK-47” and “submachine gun.” The almost always correct wording for these things follows: “semi-automatic firearm,” “[normal capacity] magazine,” “intermediate caliber rifle” (almost all handguns, and every sort that military and LEO employ, should be considered low-powered firearms), “semiautomatic AK-47 look-a-like” and “pistol caliber carbine.” I’m not saying that any journalist using the former terms is actually biased against guns, just that his word choice employs anti-gun rhetoric. On the other hand, those are terms that the populace at large grasps easily (or thinks they do) plus exact (thus intensive) terminology and rigorous attention to minutiae both have little place in news journalism. Unfortunately, **Kimmy** , people like you take little time to investigate the unfamiliar before jumping on the bandwagon to further regulate things that others rely on and enjoy in order to assuage their own fears about this “big, scary world.” I hope that an armed samaritan proficient with his weapon is around to help if you are ever accosted by anyone meaning you harm because, to quote an old adage, “when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/164 "2009-04-06T06:14:58Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > You’re nothing - you mean nothing to me - I don’t care what you tell me to do, [blah blah blah … obscenities … blah blah blah … WAKE UP SHEEPLE …] Every time someone says this chillingly, all I can think of is Fat Tony telling the ferret “You’re not a pet, and you’re not a friend. You’re nothing to me.” Also, you did totes say you were quitting the thread. It was sort of this insane monologue, remember? Where you said there were good arguments to be made for your side, but you weren’t making them and your backup didn’t show. Then you said we were sheep and we should just hope we don’t get carjacked in our rainbow-flag-stickered Priuses that we fuel with unicorn farts, and then your rant started making even less sense, so I stopped reading and just sang Steam’s [_Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye_](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsaTElBljOE). But hey! Now you’re back! ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/165 "2009-04-06T06:22:50Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Secondly, as to the “arsenal” part - no, an “AK” and a few handguns does not constitute an arsenal. What he had was almost certainly NOT a real AK-47, which costs as much as 10,000 dollars and requires NFA registration and tax stamp. (I don’t think there’s a single recorded instance of a registered NFA (National Firearms Act - in other words, a full-auto or select fire weapon) being used in a crime. What he had was probably an AK clone that can fire semiautomatically only. OK, so he had that, and a few pistols. How is this an arsenal? > > Is it an arsenal to have three pistols and a hunting rifle, but no “AK?” Is it an arsenal to have one AK and one pistol? What is it that makes it the arsenal? The number of guns? How many do you have to have for it to be an arsenal? 3? 4? Does an “AK” count for three guns or something, so that an “AK” and one pistol is the same as four pistols or three pistols and one rifle? > > Most of the discussion here seems to be from people who don’t know anything about guns, probably have gotten all of their knowledge about them from action movies like HEAT, and yet hate them anyway, as a knee jerk reaction. And they also seem to have very little understanding of what the NRA does, and what its positions are. And while I don’t think that “Obama is going to take away all our guns,” he DID in fact explicitly state that he wanted to renew the “assault weapons” ban - so how can you really be so surprised that shooters got paranoid about it? After all, the man said it himself that he wanted to ban a HUGE and very popular class of weapons, with all sorts of applications The AR-15 is the most versatile rifle in the world, and is used for every kind of shooting that there is, including hunting - and it’s not an “assault rifle” because it is semi-automatic only, although I don’t expect those with complete and abject ignorance of how firearms work to understand that distinction. They’ll still just think “oooh big scary evil gun, bad bad bad.” That’s the kind of logic that most anti-gun sentiment appears to be based on. > > Some posters like **Diogenes** have anti gun stances but at least they’re articulate about why they feel that way. But this seems to be the exception and not the rule. Finally sanity! I agree with everything in your post. The media exaggerates most gun stories for maximum effect. Every ‘semi-automatic’ weapon is an assault weapon. The non-gun owning public does not understand that just means that a gun can be fired multiple times without being cocked each time. One shot for each trigger pull. They see movies with guys blasting away with fully automatic guns and think that is what a semi-automatic is. I live in an area with a big hunting tradition, in one of the very liberal states on the ‘left coast’. I’m by no means any sort of gun nut but my wife has a high powered hunting rifle/scope combo. So does my son. My other son has 2 hunting rifles and a .22 rifle, couple of large caliber semi auto handguns. And I have a bolt action hunting rifle (chambered for the same round that the AK47 shoots) and a semi auto hand gun too. These are for hunting and target shooting. We are completely normal for this area and maybe a bit under armed. Many have collections and guns are handed down through generations. I am not in any danger from my neighbors or they from me. We do not carry guns for self defense, although this house would be a very bad choice for a crook to break into while we are home. However, if some crime were committed and all the guns were removed from my house the media would make the ‘arsenal’ and ammo look like some kind of survivalist enclave. Most of the reporters in the media have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to guns. Cries for disarming law abiding citizens are a liberal fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/166 "2009-04-06T06:33:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’d leave it off because it’s complete bullshit. That’s the stated _excuse_, maybe, but it’s not genuine. People own guns because they get off on owning guns. I’m not opposed to gun rights. I think the 2nd Amendment is an individual right, and I’m not out to take anyone’s guns away, but I wish a lot of the gun toters would be more honest about themselves. It’s a rush to fire a gun. It’s a rush to carry one. I know, I’ve done it. It’s ok to just admit it. Since I already posted in this thread, I’m going to address this one before I read the whole thing over. Becuase you were in the Navy (I think) and might not have carried a firearm very often, I’m not going to say that you’re the sort of person I wouldn’t want carrying a gun because you think carrying a gun is “a rush.” However, as anyone who has carried a gun on a regular basis knows, at best you can almost forget about having it; otherwise it can be a downright chore. As for me, when I first started concealed carrying, I was mostly paranoid that a gungrabber might make me and cause a scene. But yes, shooting a gun is a blast, which is why I like to go out and shoot paper. I haven’t hunted since I was young and got a turkey. Despite the fact that I think turkeys are some of the ugliest creatures on the planet, I felt terrible about that. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/167 "2009-04-06T06:40:28Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > Yet it’s of no concern that he is able to buy and stockpile firearms. Where do you get such ignorant assumptions from? It’s damn concerning that he was able to get firearms, considering both a dishonorable discharge (if true) and a protective order (if true and still in effect) _should_ have disqualified him from legally obtaining/owning firearms. (Here’s [one cite](http://www.examiner.com/x-3253-Minneapolis-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m4d4-Breaking-News--Was-Pittsburg-gunman-ineligible-to-possess-firearms) with links to appropriate U.S. code) If currently existing laws weren’t enforced here…then gun control advocates have little cause for arguing for _more_ laws that still won’t stop loonies like this guy from getting guns. If this information about the shooter turns out to be true (remember this is all still a bunch of media mongering right now, so who knows what’s accurate), it’s damn concerning to me that he had guns and I’ll be right there with you calling for better enforcement of _current_ laws. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/168 "2009-04-06T06:44:35Z")
> [@SuntanTigerTamer](#): > > 1. Fear. It’s all you have and is the entire basis for your ideology. How’s that feel? I just love the dripping irony and hypocrisy. Your argument boils down to “Fear the guns, fear the gun owners! Fear pro-second amendment people, and fear people who read/watch right-wing media, for one day they will go off the deep end and shoot everyone up as martyrs for their cause!” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/169 "2009-04-06T06:50:55Z")
Oops, I meant to include this in my post to you **bmoak** but I missed the edit window: If it does turn out that he was legally prohibited from having guns, then anyone who knowingly (in whatever fashion - for example if they knew about his discharge/protective order, but didn’t know that prohibited him, that’s no excuse IMO. They should have looked it up) helped him illegally obtain firearms should be prosecuted for the role they played in these officers’ deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/170 "2009-04-06T08:18:41Z")
> [@Monster104](#): > > Your argument boils down to “Fear the guns, fear the gun owners! Fear pro-second amendment people, and fear people who read/watch right-wing media, for one day they will go off the deep end and shoot everyone up as martyrs for their cause!” :smack: Considering that that’s exactly what much of the right wing has been promoting ( and on occasion doing ) for many years, it’s a rational fear. There’s also the fact that I regard the right wing as crazy, and evil; not just people with whom I have a mild disagreement. Of course I’m afraid of the evil and the lunatic having guns. As I see it, much of the point of the push for “gun rights” is to make sure that the right wing thugs are heavily armed. And yes, it is the _ **right wing** _ thugs that are the problem; in modern America, political violence is overwhelmingly from the Right. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/171 "2009-04-06T09:20:38Z")
Anti-gun people are like anti-vaccination people. The anti-vaccination people are right from one sense, since they get many of the benefits of vaccinations without facing any of the risks because of herd immunity. It only breaks down when so many people fail to immunize their children that herd immunity isn’t a factor anymore. There are risks to keeping firearms in your house, and there are benefits. An armed householder is the last thing a burgler or home invasion criminal want to meet. Anti-gun people benefit from the risks taken by their gun owning neighbors because the criminals don’t know who has guns and who doesn’t. It only breaks down when so many people put away their guns that criminals can be relatively certain the house they have selected is unarmed. If you don’t think armed citizens prevent crime, would you be willing to fly a flag in front of your house certifying that there are no guns inside? Maybe in your nice suburbs, but how about where the bulk of the people live? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/172 "2009-04-06T09:29:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Anti-gun people are like anti-vaccination people. The anti-vaccination people are right from one sense, since they get many of the benefits of vaccinations without facing any of the risks because of herd immunity. It only breaks down when so many people fail to immunize their children that herd immunity isn’t a factor anymore. Go fuck yourself. the Gun Control crowd do not put lives in danger by campaigning for stricter gun control. the answer to gun crime is not to arm more people. I live in a society with strict gun control, and I feel far safer for it. I’ve been the victim of crime, and I live in a pretty shitty neighbourhood, and never once have I felt I’d be safer if I had access to a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/173 "2009-04-06T09:31:42Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > I think the ability to shoot cops and soldiers is the best reason for the second amendment. I prefer a country in which the police know they are not the only ones with firearms. My impression is that this knowledge results in them shooting a lot of innocents because they are trained to act with a degree of paranoia as a consequence of the high likelihood that they will be shot at while carrying out their duties. Your post appears to imply that if they thought that they were generally the only ones with firearms they would treat citizens worse. My experience of the first world outside the States suggests rather the opposite. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Religion is an idea; a figment; and an idea and figment that has caused millions of people over time to be massacred in the name of one god or another. Religion, as a force, is infinitely more powerful than even the most advanced firearm. And religions, believe it or not, exert a far greater force upon people all over the world than the NRA does. Indeed and that’s why I hold religions responsible in precisely the way the OP suggests the NRA should be held responsible. I don’t want to turn this into a debate about religion so I won’t go into details but your analogy gets you precisely nowhere with me. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/174 "2009-04-06T09:58:04Z")
> [@Monster104](#): > > Where do you get such ignorant assumptions from? It’s damn concerning that he was able to get firearms, considering both a dishonorable discharge (if true) and a protective order (if true and still in effect) _should_ have disqualified him from legally obtaining/owning firearms. (Here’s [one cite](http://www.examiner.com/x-3253-Minneapolis-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m4d4-Breaking-News--Was-Pittsburg-gunman-ineligible-to-possess-firearms) with links to appropriate U.S. code) I have not heard one way or the other but I doubt he received a dishonorable discharge. They are actually pretty hard to get. You pretty much have to be convicted of a serious crime. There are several other layers of discharge between honorable and dishonorable. It would not surprise me that since this guy never got out of Boot Camp he was probably administratively dismissed for “failure to adapt to military life” or some such reason. We had several get kicked out of basic when I went through. There was nothing in their record that could keep them from owning a firearm or getting a government job or anything else. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/175 "2009-04-06T09:58:07Z")
> [@](#): > > You don’t like guns? Fine, that’s your choice. But don’t demonise law-abiding gun owners because of it All law-abiding gun owners are one crummy set of circumstances and a serious push away from going postal one day. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/176 "2009-04-06T10:38:49Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > All law-abiding gun owners are one crummy set of circumstances and a serious push away from going postal one day. No more or less than you are. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/177 "2009-04-06T11:07:25Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > No more or less than you are. I have to disagree with that, given that **Ivan** is apparently less concerned about little things like “not breaking the law”. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/178 "2009-04-06T11:09:06Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > No more or less than you are. Fortunately, if I go postal, all that will be flying is spittle. Of course, if I go postal with malice aforethought, I’ll be able to get as much weaponry as I need. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/179 "2009-04-06T11:20:27Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > By the way, I heard that this shooter in this latest incident was dishonorably discharged from the military. Wait…how was he able to get these guns then? I thought the law prevents people who are felons from obtaining guns? Waitaminnit - what’s that? You’re telling me the law doesn’t work? Duuuuurrrrrrrr…(head explodes) I’ve seen a lot of dumb in this thread, but this post really stood out to me. I’ll preface by saying that I am a bit of a fence sitter with regards to gun control. Attempting to take away guns is silly now that the genie is out of the bottle, but simply saying the answer to gun violence is more guns seems silly to me. Anti-gun advocates forget that there are responsible gun owners out there, and NRA buffs forget that there are a lot of looneys out there with guns that seem to be waiting for an excuse. Thusly I’m torn. Just posting this so I don’t find myself defending a position that I do not have. The quoted post **Argent**? Grade A idiocy. I realize that you are likely just shooting from the hip at this point, but you’ve done better in this thread than that. A law doesn’t work so why have it? Sensible. People still shoplift. Better get that law off the books as well. Not to mention everytime the government attempts to close off the loopholes that keep guns away from those who ought not have them, the NRA goes all “THERE TAKIN’ UR GUNSSS!!!” on 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005/180 "2009-04-06T11:34:16Z")
You probably misunderstood me, or else I just wasn’t clear enough to begin with. All I’m saying is that felons with criminal records who want to obtain guns clearly don’t seem to have much of a problem doing so. That’s the point I’m trying to make. I’m FINE with background checks for gun purchases. But lots of guns are still purchased illegally, and no anti-gun laws can stop that as long as there is a thriving black market. What I wrote was intended to be in response to those who seem to think that tighter gun restrictions instantly means less crime. It’s bullshit - look at Washington DC and New York City for examples of why. YOU, wolf, are on the fence, as you’ve said. Some in this thread don’t seem to be. They seem to be quite firmly on the side believing that ALL guns are simply evil, and should not be available to civilians. The NRA isn’t perfect. But I support them because they are the ONLY group that’s fighting against the erosion of second amendment rights. There are some forces in the government that are really, ridiculously over the top in their anti-gun positions, like the “assault weapons” ban and bans on magazines with 11 rounds instead of 10 - someone needs to be around to stand up to that bullshit, and the NRA happens to be that someone. So I’m a member. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/price-for-gun-rights-is-paid-in-pa/492005.md?page=10)