# Priest tells family that deceased was half-assed Xtian and going to hell. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 18, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375 "2003-07-18T13:05:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/1 "2003-07-18T13:05:34Z")
[ABC Newsonline](http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s904146.htm) > [@](#): > > Priest proves no comfort in shadow of death > A New Mexico family is suing the local Catholic church over a funeral in which the priest allegedly said their relative was only a middling Catholic who was going straight to hell. > > Lawyers for the family of Ben Martinez say they have filed a lawsuit against the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Santa Fe and one of its priests. > > Court papers filed last month say Rev Scott Mansfield said at Martinez’s funeral last year that the deceased was “living in sin”, “lukewarm in his faith” and that “the Lord vomited people like Ben out of his mouth to hell”. > > Martinez, 80, died June 17, 2002. > > Roughly 200 people attended the funeral at St Patrick’s Parish in Chama, New Mexico, a small town north of Santa Fe. > > Family members say he was a practising Catholic all his life but was too ill to attend church in the last year of his life. > > Nine members of the Martinez family are seeking punitive and compensatory damages for severe emotional and physical suffering. > > Lawyers did not say how much the family was seeking in damages. > > One of the plaintiffs says the townspeople “are staring at her, thinking her father is in hell”. > > The complaint also said that as Rev Mansfield walked to the grave, he laced his comments about Martinez - a former town councilman - with profanities. > > “These people are profoundly hurt,” said lawyer Kathleen Kentish-Lucero, representing the Martinez family. > > “If you are Catholic and a representative of your church says your father is going to hell, that’s perhaps the most devastating thing someone can say to you,” she said. > > But church officials deny the family’s claims. I wonder how old the priest is. Any NM Dopers out there that have heard about this. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/2 "2003-07-18T13:18:26Z")
I wonder what Jack Chick must be thinking… On the one hand, spouting about hellfire at the funeral of someone less rabid than yourself is a great masturbatory fantasy… …But on the other hand, the priest was a _Catholic_… ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/3 "2003-07-18T13:18:38Z")
On the one hand, I believe the family because the chances of a random mass hallucination are pretty slim. OTOH, wtf?? How long has the priest been in that parish, and what’s his history with the guy? Is the priest senile or a drinker? Was the guy a serial rapist and kept confessing it and only the priest knew it? Legally, I’m not sure if they have a case. Certainly the priest was out of line and his bishop should clear him out of there if its true and get him some psychiatric help, but I’ve never heard of a canon rule that you _have_ to make nice at a funeral, because who the hell would think you’d have to pass arule like that? It’s common sense and part of the profession. I’ve seen funerals where the _family_ said some pretty rough stuff, but the priest is supposed to smile and say the right things. And I don’t see where any civil laws have been broken, or what exactly any secular court can do. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/4 "2003-07-18T13:49:11Z")
OK, on the one hand, it was a very nasty thing to say. On the other hand, at least he was being honest. I mean, how often to priests and preachers go out and say the generic boring things they always say. Sounds like this priest knew his material, eh? 🙂 Nothing like the personal touch for a memorable occaision. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/5 "2003-07-18T13:50:25Z")
OK, on the one hand, it was a very nasty thing to say. On the other hand, at least he was being honest. I mean, how often to priests and preachers go out and say the generic boring things they always say. Sounds like this priest knew his material, eh? 🙂 Nothing like the personal touch for a memorable occaision. There is an equal chance, of course that the priest was is (a) nuts, (b) senile, (c) a drunken sot taking out his aggression. I cannot imagine a rational person doing this, out of sheer self-preservation instinct, if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/6 "2003-07-18T14:01:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > There is an equal chance, of course that the priest was is (a) nuts, (b) senile, © a drunken sot taking out his aggression. I cannot imagine a rational person doing this, out of sheer self-preservation instinct, if nothing else. Well, that would be an ecumenical question. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/7 "2003-07-18T14:07:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > There is an equal chance, of course that the priest was is (a) nuts, (b) senile, © a drunken sot taking out his aggression. I cannot imagine a rational person doing this, out of sheer self-preservation instinct, if nothing else. Well, that would be an ecumenical question. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/8 "2003-07-18T14:45:31Z")
The old man had passed on. A wonderful funeral was in progress and the country priest talked at length of the good traits of the deceased, what an honest man he was, and what a loving husband and kind father he was. Finally, the widow leaned over and whispered to one of her children, “Go up there and take a look in the coffin and see if that’s your father.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/9 "2003-07-18T15:01:00Z")
Yeeeesh! I sure hope they discover that Mansfield was drunk. He’s the flippin’ [vocations director](http://members.aol.com/asfvocations/welcome.htm) (bottom of the page) for the diocese. (This _generally_ indicates a rather young guy with some advanced education, so we are _probably_ not talking about some crotchety old crank, hauled out of retirement to fill in the gaps at funerals. Having dug up the web site, I see that my guess was pretty close.) Now, I’m willing to hold off complete condemnation until I hear the whole story (I have seen a single misunderstood remark by a priest blown out of proportion with lots of stuff invented about the incident), but I doubt that this is a complete fabrication. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/10 "2003-07-18T16:29:42Z")
Just a heads-up, **Shirley** , in case you didn’t know: The Mods frown on cutting and pasting the full text of an article, due to copyright concerns. You might want to email one and get them to edit your post. ---
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/11 "2003-07-18T16:39:35Z")
What a horrible thing to say at someone’s funeral! You see, THIS is why I have made it clear to my family I want a non-religious funeral! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/12 "2003-07-18T16:54:29Z")
I agree with **Mehitabel**. I would be very hesitant indeed to ask a secular court to enforce some rule as to what a priest could say at a religious service. Even if it was as offensive as this. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/13 "2003-07-18T17:43:59Z")
Legally it’s going to be a question of damages. The family is going to have to show that the priests comments affected them in a way that merits pecuniary remuneration. Regardless of the viability of a lawsuit, the comments by the priest (if accurately reported) were obviously crass and inappropriate. Funerals are for the _living_, not the dead. The responsibilty of clergy is to comfort the survivors. The priest’s private speculations as to the final dispensation of the soul of the departed are irrelevant to the proceedings. Regardless of his opinions about the dead guy, this priest showed contempt for the feelings of the survivors. He did this publicly and at a moment of great emotional vulnerability for the family. I would hope that he would be disciplined by his diocese and that he would be required to undergo some remedial training as to the responsibilties of a priest at a funeral. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/14 "2003-07-18T18:13:01Z")
A friend’s 22-year-old son committed suicide last year while in a serious depression. Thank heaven, the priest at HIS funeral was incredibly sensitive, talking right up-front about how this young man died of a horrible illness, depression, and was now healed and in God’s hands. It was incredibly comforting to the family. While I’m not sure a lawsuit is the right venue, this certainly sounds like an incident that needs looking into by somebody! ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/15 "2003-07-18T18:59:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AngelicGemma \* > \*\*What a horrible thing to say at someone’s funeral! You see, THIS is why I have made it clear to my family I want a non-religious funeral! \*\* Boy, I shudder to think what the priest will say at your funeral if THAT’S your attitude! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/16 "2003-07-18T19:05:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*Boy, I shudder to think what the priest will say at your funeral if THAT’S your attitude! 😛 \*\* Hopefully, that I was a good person, and although not religious, lead a good life. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/17 "2003-07-18T19:51:22Z")
makes you wonder what that priest was thinking, cursing out a former town councilman… \ “That’ll teach that Bastard for turning down my Hot Tub variance. Kept me from hosting the NAMBLA Spring Cook-Out for the third year in a row. Burn in HELL you prudish Rat Bastard!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/18 "2003-07-18T19:55:04Z")
Anyone else misreading the OP title as “Pirate tells family…”? Just me? Oh… ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/19 "2003-07-18T20:01:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > There is an equal chance, of course that the priest was is (a) nuts, (b) senile, (c) a drunken sot taking out his aggression. You forgot (d) a spurned lover. 😉😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375/20 "2003-07-18T20:30:58Z")
A funeral is no place for the truth. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/priest-tells-family-that-deceased-was-half-assed-xtian-and-going-to-hell/189375.md?page=2)