# Prime Minister Boris Johnson tries to lead the UK but has resigned on July 7, 2022 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872 "2019-07-30T14:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/182 "2019-09-03T17:42:46Z")
If anyone wants to watch the live debate in parliament this evening, it’s [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gRXsOEkaA4). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/183 "2019-09-03T18:11:03Z")
O Britain, my beloved Britain…! To what a sorry pass you have come. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/184 "2019-09-03T18:12:07Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The problem with Scottish independence is the finances. > > [Scotland’s deficit seven times higher than UK as a whole last year](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/21/scotland-2018-deficit-higher-than-uk-as-a-whole-last-year) > \* > “Total state spending in Scotland was £1,661 higher per person than the UK average… while tax receipts were £307 less per head than the UK average.”\* Richard Murphy does a very good job of pointing out the many issues with the GERS claims here: [The GERS data is ludicrous: Scotland does not generate 60% of the UK’s net fiscal deficit](https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/08/21/the-gers-data-is-ludicrous-scotland-does-not-generate-60-of-the-uks-net-fiscal-deficit/) and here [Whatever GERS reports today it’s important to remember it’s still CRAp – or a Completely Rubbish Approximation to the truth](https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2019/08/21/whatever-gers-reports-today-its-important-to-remember-its-still-crap-or-a-completely-rubbish-approximation-to-the-truth/) “the accounting is biased and theoretically utterly flawed. When accounting it is vital that all estimates are prepared consistently and on the same basis. GERS has not been. Income is estimated on the basis of that arising IN Scotland but spending is estimated on the basis of that arising FOR Scotland. So, only taxes paid in Scotland are included. But expenditure in England (mainly), Wales and Northern Ireland is also charged to Scotland when Scotland is deemed to benefit from it. But the tax paid to generate that expenditure is not taken into account. The system is, then, inherently designed to show a deficit. This is why the Scottish government claim about it is wrong.” Please do check the first link in particular (hard to quote here, as much of the data is represented in graphics) ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/185 "2019-09-03T20:25:36Z")
Now that Boris has lost control of Parliament (due to a Government MP switching to the opposition), his only hope is to **avoid all voting** and keep bleating “we had a referendum several years ago and that’s all that matters.” And of course letting Dominic Cummings run the country…:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/186 "2019-09-03T20:35:32Z")
Things are getting positively spicy in the debate right now. Some of the tories are just ripping into the government. I don’t think the threat of deselection has worked. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/187 "2019-09-03T21:11:01Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Now that Boris has lost control of Parliament (due to a Government MP switching to the opposition), his only hope is to **avoid all voting** and keep bleating “we had a referendum several years ago and that’s all that matters.” > > And of course letting Dominic Cummings run the country…:smack: My guess is Boris’s likely path: 1. Agree to Labour demand to the delaying legislation (he will plan to repeal it), to give him the General Election in October that he wants, and that they also want as well. 2. While he could potentially use various procedural tricks to try to ignore this legislation until the UK barreled out of Brexit, it would leave him no real path forward as a politician. The scenario of agreeing to it and getting Labour to sign off on a general election gives him freedom to run with a 10/31 exit as the Tory manifesto. 3. If they win–and let’s have an aside: it’s worth noting most swing polling sites for Parliament ([Electoral Calculus](https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html) one I frequently use) still suggest it’s not at all a foregone conclusion Boris will lose a general. Labour’s support is horrible even compared to what they drew in 2017, and the voting landscape is very fractured. In a FPTP system it makes it very possible for the conservatives to come away with a commanding majority in the face of a more divided opposition. But **if** they win, Boris will seek to push through legislation on the single day he will have after winning the election to reverse the delaying legislation. Assuming he had won the general, he could insist the Lords not block the repeal effort on the basis that exiting on 10/31 was part of the Tory (winning party) manifesto, and thus the will of the electorate. 1. Britain crashes out of the EU, Boris gets to be PM for 5 years. Probably outright ignores calls for Scottish independence or poisons any potential referendum efforts by imposing untenable requirements on Scotland; likely Boris also blames the chaos of hard Brexit on the conservative rebels and Labour who “undermined his last minute negotiations” (which from all accounts, were not actually happening.) To go back to #3, “if they win” is difficult to say. I think the reason all the projection sites show them winning such a strong majority is because of all the fracturing right now, with Labour having lost significant % support and Lib Dems having gained, and the expectation Brexit Party won’t win a single seat and thus not costing the conservatives too badly. But right now as we speak a lot of, frankly “brave” (if we can use that word) conservative politicians are standing up to Johnson and sacrificing their political careers to do so. They will be purged from the party and unable to run as conservative candidates in the general, but do they take significant party support with them? To some renegade faction or etc? Who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/188 "2019-09-03T21:28:33Z")
The Rebel Alliance wins the vote. Philip Hammond, Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart, Oliver Letwin and Nicholas Soames are no longer Tories. 21 Tory MPs defied the whip to vote for Letwin’s motion tonight: Bebb Benyon Brine Burt Clark G Clarke K Gauke Greening Grieve Gyimah Hammond P Hammond S Harrington James Letwin Milton Nokes Sandbach Soames Stewart R Vaizey Theresa May voted with the government. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/189 "2019-09-03T21:32:24Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > My guess is Boris’s likely path: > > 1. Agree to Labour demand to the delaying legislation (he will plan to repeal it), to give him the General Election in October that he wants, and that they also want as well. > > 2. While he could potentially use various procedural tricks to try to ignore this legislation until the UK barreled out of Brexit, it would leave him no real path forward as a politician. The scenario of agreeing to it and getting Labour to sign off on a general election gives him freedom to run with a 10/31 exit as the Tory manifesto. > > 3. If they win–and let’s have an aside: > > it’s worth noting most swing polling sites for Parliament ([Electoral Calculus](https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html) one I frequently use) still suggest it’s not at all a foregone conclusion Boris will lose a general. Labour’s support is horrible even compared to what they drew in 2017, and the voting landscape is very fractured. In a FPTP system it makes it very possible for the conservatives to come away with a commanding majority in the face of a more divided opposition. > > But **if** they win, Boris will seek to push through legislation on the single day he will have after winning the election to reverse the delaying legislation. Assuming he had won the general, he could insist the Lords not block the repeal effort on the basis that exiting on 10/31 was part of the Tory (winning party) manifesto, and thus the will of the electorate. > > 1. Britain crashes out of the EU, Boris gets to be PM for 5 years. Probably outright ignores calls for Scottish independence or poisons any potential referendum efforts by imposing untenable requirements on Scotland; likely Boris also blames the chaos of hard Brexit on the conservative rebels and Labour who “undermined his last minute negotiations” (which from all accounts, were not actually happening.) > > To go back to #3, “if they win” is difficult to say. I think the reason all the projection sites show them winning such a strong majority is because of all the fracturing right now, with Labour having lost significant % support and Lib Dems having gained, and the expectation Brexit Party won’t win a single seat and thus not costing the conservatives too badly. But right now as we speak a lot of, frankly “brave” (if we can use that word) conservative politicians are standing up to Johnson and sacrificing their political careers to do so. They will be purged from the party and unable to run as conservative candidates in the general, but do they take significant party support with them? To some renegade faction or etc? Who knows. Unusually, this time I think there might be a lot of “shy Labour voters” just like there used to be for the Tories. The Tories generally get more votes than their polling suggests, but that fluctuates. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/190 "2019-09-03T21:36:21Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The problem with Scottish independence is the finances. > > [Scotland’s deficit seven times higher than UK as a whole last year](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/21/scotland-2018-deficit-higher-than-uk-as-a-whole-last-year) > \* > “Total state spending in Scotland was £1,661 higher per person than the UK average… while tax receipts were £307 less per head than the UK average.”\* > > The question is whether the EU would even allow them to join with a deficit of 7% of GDP, far higher than any EU nation. > > The SNP argues that they would repudiate their part of the UK national debt and stop supporting Trident. Whether the UK parliament would agree to that is another matter… I’m entirely against Scottish independence, but to appeal to just the economics against them being independent is totally ignoring the Irish example right next door. Ireland was impoverished for years after independence but by and large was seen as ‘Worth it’ ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/191 "2019-09-03T21:37:12Z")
Word on the street is that no one is being deselected unless they rebel on tomorrow’s vote. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/192 "2019-09-03T22:08:41Z")
[Sky News editor](https://twitter.com/lucyplint/status/1169008531284140034): > [@](#): > > Confirmed: Philip Hammond has had whip removed after phone call with Chief Whip. Source close to group: ‘No10 have responded by removing the whip from 2 former chancellors, a former lord chancellor & Winston Churchill’s grandson. What has has happened to the Conservative Party?’ ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/193 "2019-09-03T22:18:25Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Word on the street is that no one is being deselected unless they rebel on tomorrow’s vote. Thirty minutes later - because these are the times we live in now - the word on the street is they appear to be being called by the Chief Whip one-by-one and are no longer Conservative MPs. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/194 "2019-09-03T22:35:12Z")
Just-expelled [Rory Stewart](https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1169012650199736320), MP: > [@](#): > > Strange that a decision has been made to remove the whip from so many colleagues who were ministers so recently. Particularly when we voted repeatedly for a Brexit deal. I can’t think of a historical precedent. But I am not stepping down as an MP. [Sun political editor](https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1169012326432989185): > [@](#): > > A Tory MP texts: “What a nuclear grade cluster f\*\*k”. Tough to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/195 "2019-09-03T22:45:14Z")
Good chance that Boris Johnson won’t be moving up [on this list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_length_of_tenure)ever. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/196 "2019-09-03T23:17:20Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Good chance that Boris Johnson won’t be moving up [on this list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_length_of_tenure)ever. I guess that’s one way he might make his mark on history. Centuries from now, will he be remembered as a great British hero, great British villain, or the answer to a trivia question? Meanwhile, [political correspondent for _The Times_](https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1169003685776691201): > [@](#): > > Ken Clarke does not appear at all shaken, or lost, by being booted out of the party he’s represented for 49 years in the Commons. “Anyone who says I’m not a Conservative is taking an odd political view. It’s the Brexit Party rebadged.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/197 "2019-09-03T23:59:22Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’m entirely against Scottish independence, but to appeal to just the economics against them being independent is totally ignoring the Irish example right next door. > > Ireland was impoverished for years after independence but by and large was seen as ‘Worth it’ True, but that was pre-EU. If Scotland wants independence to stay in the EU, it has to meet the EU deficit/GDP ratio. If they’re over that ratio and can’t get admitted as a member, then their independence could cut them off from both the EU and the rump UK. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/198 "2019-09-04T00:01:09Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Things are getting positively spicy in the debate right now. Some of the tories are just ripping into the government. I don’t think the threat of deselection has worked. It may actually have emboldened them. There is party discipline, sure, but there’s always a limit to that when a party is internally divided. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/199 "2019-09-04T00:10:55Z")
Plus, there is likely a strong element of “Fuck off, Boris!” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/200 "2019-09-04T00:15:38Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > In blunt terms, he no longer commands a majority of the Commons and therefore shouldn’t be PM. He can’t win a vote even if all Tory MPs voted with him. Which they currently won’t on Brexit. It makes a lot of his threats more obviously bluster, and massively increases his incentive to call an election. Not necessarily. You can be PM now without a majority, thanks to Cameron and Clegg, and as Prime Minister Theresa “Worst-parliamentary-defeat-for-a-British-government-in-modern-history!” May conclusively demonstrated. If Corbin isn’t prepared to vote non-confidence, \*\*but \*\* isn’t prepared to vote for an election, then Boris stays as PM. There’s a strong “Molon labe” element to parliamentary government. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/201 "2019-09-04T00:26:19Z")
“Now”? You always could have been PM without a majority. It’s never been about commanding a majority. It’s about not being openly voted against by a majority. The UK has had minority governments since before the Crimean War. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872.md?page=11)