# Prime Minister Boris Johnson tries to lead the UK but has resigned on July 7, 2022 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872 "2019-07-30T14:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/302 "2019-09-10T01:28:38Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > First Dog on the Moon has something to say about [Remainaggedon and the UK bravely leaving the EU](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/09/brexit-a-few-tiny-things-stand-between-remainaggedon-and-the-uk-bravely-leaving-the-eu) That’s brilliant! ETA: Thanks for the backup, **tomndebb**! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/303 "2019-09-10T09:32:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [A couple of pieces of news:](https://apnews.com/600609137bf34bcba826085b085bfcbe)So now we get to see if BoJo is a lawful PM, a criminal or dead in a ditch. Only the first two options are plausible. Boris has 99 problems, but a ditch ain’t one. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/304 "2019-09-10T10:45:04Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Boris has 99 problems, but a ditch ain’t one. He’d be waiting for it to be dug by the bulldozer he promised to lie down in front of to stop the Heathrow expansion. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/305 "2019-09-10T13:34:18Z")
What a week it’s been. I’m more confident and optimistic now than I was at the end of August. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/306 "2019-09-10T13:36:06Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Only the first two options are plausible. Boris has 99 problems, but a ditch ain’t one. I hope you dropped your keyboard and left the room after you were finished typing that. 😛 Well done! ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/307 "2019-09-10T14:54:52Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > On what grounds do you cancel it? How about because the people in favour of Brexit are: - Donald Trump :smack: - Nigel Farage :eek: - President Putin ☹ - Dominic Cummings :rolleyes: (and his patsy, Boris) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/308 "2019-09-10T15:20:49Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > That last point is the tricky thing though. On what grounds do you cancel it? There are a lot of good reasons for this, actually! 1. On representational grounds. Sometimes, the outcome of a referendum is so horrendous that the representatives of a representational democracy must step in and put a stop to it. We now know that Brexit would be a short-term and long-term catastrophe, and the actual vote was merely advisory, with no clear promise of what would happen as a result of it. It is entirely valid to say, “No, sorry, we’re not going to shoot ourselves in the head, this is stupid.” 2. On democratic grounds. Recent polling has shown a steady drop in support for Brexit, to the point where it is now clearly in the minority. 3. On legitimacy grounds. The election was rife with dishonesty and outright (punishable!) electoral fraud, [almost all on the winning side](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/vote-leave-broke-electoral-law-and-british-democracy-is-shaken). 4. On technical grounds. What people voted for and what people are likely to get are two very different things. There was an advisory vote held on the question, “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”. This says nothing about what manner the leaving should be, and it’s entirely possible that, had the actual available options been “stay or leave in a catastrophic no-deal brexit that leads to serious shortages in every industry and insane harm for countless people”, the poll would have gone quite differently. 5. On the grounds that you’re not actually cancelling shit! There is no reason you could not revoke article 50 now, then re-invoke it a few years down the line once the UK has figured out what it wants and how it plans to achieve those goals. Literally all it does is give the status quo more time and improve Britain’s bargaining position. So yeah. Lots of reasons. > [@](#): > > The assumption seems to be that there is no democratic fallout from doing so. Cancelling it does not mean that those who voted for it will shut up and go home. Obviously not. But it does mean that we avoid the immediate catastrophe, and that seems slightly more pressing than pissing off a bunch of (and let’s be perfectly honest here) _impressively thick and/or racist people_. > [@](#): > > If you are saying that leaving the EU is now impossible then people will quite rightly say “when did we agree to give up all possibility of leaving the EU?” To me, such a situation would have been the greatest democratic outrage. But… nobody is saying that. Indeed, emphasis is consistently being put on how piss-poor _this specific attempt_ is. Indeed, it’s hard to imagine how the UK could have screwed the pooch any harder on this. It is absolutely possible to leave the European Union. It is not possible to do so without some fairly significant economic hardships, but in a rational world, Britain would be aware of those problems and will have prepared for the contingencies, and worked out a deal with the EU that would minimize the harm. But we live in a shit world, where the government itself [covers up papers detailing how bad things are going to get](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/18/number-10-furious-leak-document-predicting-no-deal-brexit-shortages), lest people start to get cold feet. We live in a world where the government tried to hire a ferry company as a contingency plan and it turned out the company owned zero ships. Is it possible to leave the EU? Sure! But May was not up to the task, and Johnson sure as hell ain’t up for the task. It’s like asking whether the US can win a war against Iraq. Sure! It’s just that _maybe_ George W. Bush is the wrong man for the job, and if we’re stuck with him, we’d be better off calling the whole thing off. > [@](#): > > If it is still possible then the problem has not gone away and will resurface with renewed force whenever the E.U. program overreaches itself or stumbles…and it will. Sure! But then what? What’s the worst-case scenario then? Is it worse than “no-deal Brexit under a Johnson administration”? If so: _how_?! Seems to me that the worst-case scenario then is “the worst-case scenario now, but delayed substantially”, and given that the best-case scenario is that Britain doesn’t fuck itself sideways, I’ll roll those dice any day of the week. > [@](#): > > Regardless of any of the above, If a second referendum were held it would have to be on the basis of a remain vote representing a de-facto confirmation that the UK can never leave in the future. It is a pretty sure thing that the EU will never allow this situation to arise again. Expect a new treaty in the aftermath of this whatever happens to Brexit. Any cite on any of that? Because this seems like senseless speculation about as reasonable as the last stupid idea Boris Johnson plastered on the side of a bus. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/309 "2019-09-10T15:32:43Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > …Even the rusted, rotting weapons found in the desert had clearly been lost or abandoned long before HWB tried to drum up his war. Did you mean GWB? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/310 "2019-09-10T15:37:34Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Did you mean GWB? [Henry Warren Beatty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Beatty). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/311 "2019-09-11T01:20:31Z")
By the way, did Boris Johnson get any flak for his sexist comment about Jeremy Corbyn? The one where he called him a “great big girl’s blouse”, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Oswald\_Bastable](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oswald_bastable/32/214_2.png) [@Oswald\_Bastable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oswald_Bastable)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/312 "2019-09-11T07:09:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > By the way, did Boris Johnson get any flak for his sexist comment about Jeremy Corbyn? The one where he called him a “great big girl’s blouse”, I mean. Probably not enough: > **[Big girl's blouse: Johnson faces backlash over Corbyn jibe](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49593110)** > > PM Boris Johnson faces a backlash for shouting the phrase at the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn in Parliament. OB ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/313 "2019-09-11T09:27:01Z")
In the context of “things Boris has said recently” it’s one of the least offensive ones. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/314 "2019-09-11T09:32:28Z")
[Suspension of Parliament ruled illegal.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49661855) Will be interesting to see what law(s) have been broken, and what remedy is available. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/315 "2019-09-11T10:45:52Z")
This could be huge. Although the Government are already flinging accusations of Remainer bias at the Scottish judges. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/316 "2019-09-11T11:06:29Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Although the Government are already flinging accusations of Remainer bias at the Scottish judges. This is a very unwise thing for them to be doing. The Lord Chancellor should have a word. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/317 "2019-09-11T14:11:56Z")
Number 10 is already backpedaling: [Brexit: Boris Johnson's suspension of Parliament is unlawful, Scottish court rules -- Live updates](https://www.cnn.com/uk/live-news/boris-johnson-scottish-court-ruling-intl/index.html) Does the Scottish court have national jurisdiction? Is its ruling binding on the PM and/or Parliament itself?: [Court of Session - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Session) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/318 "2019-09-11T15:01:18Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Does the Scottish court have national jurisdiction? Is its ruling binding on the PM and/or Parliament itself? As regards the rest of the UK, technically, no, it has no jurisdiction outside Scotland, and if the matter rested there, there’s another constitutional issue, given the independence debate. But the judgement’s already overtaken by events, since as I understand it, the government is appealing against the decision in the Supreme Court (and a similar case in the English High Court, which ruled for the government, is [also being appealed to the Supreme Court](https://uk.news.yahoo.com/gina-miller-vows-continue-prorogation-101551499.html)). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/319 "2019-09-11T15:02:50Z")
> [@Oswald\_Bastable](#): > > Probably not enough: > > [Big girl's blouse: Johnson faces backlash over Corbyn jibe - BBC News](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49593110) > > OB Excellent; thank you for the link. Glad to see that he’s been called out on it. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/320 "2019-09-11T15:56:01Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Does the Scottish court have national jurisdiction? Is its ruling binding on the PM and/or Parliament itself?: [Court of Session - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Session) As the case was against the Westminster government, on a matter concerning the whole of the UK including Scotland, then the court’s decision is binding on the UK government. Obviously the Supreme Court is involved now, and we’ll see what they think. That court has to decide between two fundamentally opposed positions, held by two of the three judicial systems governing the UK: a) the reasons for prorogation are not justiciable - it’s a purely political decision (England and Wales), and b) the reasons for prorogation _are_ justiciable and the reasons have to be proper, and in this case they aren’t (Scotland) It’s a bloody minefield… ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/321 "2019-09-11T16:49:57Z")
When the Supreme Court has ruled, will the losing side then appeal the case to the European Court of Human Rights? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872.md?page=17)