# Prime Minister Boris Johnson tries to lead the UK but has resigned on July 7, 2022 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872 "2019-07-30T14:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/322 "2019-09-11T17:46:54Z")
Careful, a lot of London taxi drivers don’t accept Scottish court rulings. (stolen from Twitter) ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/323 "2019-09-12T01:14:38Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > As the case was against the Westminster government, on a matter concerning the whole of the UK including Scotland, then the court’s decision is binding on the UK government. > > Obviously the Supreme Court is involved now, and we’ll see what they think. That court has to decide between two fundamentally opposed positions, held by two of the three judicial systems governing the UK: > > a) the reasons for prorogation are not justiciable - it’s a purely political decision (England and Wales), and > > b) the reasons for prorogation _are_ justiciable and the reasons have to be proper, and in this case they aren’t (Scotland) > > It’s a bloody minefield… Actually, there’s a relatively easy reconciliation: The rule of law means that the government must comply with the law; in this context, this means that it must comply with the law of England and Wales _and_ the law of Scotland _and_ the law of Northern Ireland; as a matter of Scottish law, the reasons for prorogation are justiciable; as a matter of Scottish law, the reasons iin this case are improper. If the government’s conduct doesn’t pass muster under Scottish law then it makes no difference at all whether it passes muster under E&W or NI law. Exactly the same reasoning would apply if the Scottish courts had taken the view that the question was not justiciable and the E&W courts that it was. What this means is that the biggest questions at the Supreme Court hearing next week will be (a) is the issue justiciable as a matter of Scottish law? and (b) were the reasons given proper as a matter of Scottish law? It is irrelevant to question (a) whether the issues is justiciable under the law of any other part of the kingom, and it is irrelevant to question (b) whether the reasons given, if they were justiciable, are or would be considered proper under the law of any other part of the kingdom. In other words, in the events which have happened, the Scots law case is the big one. The case will be heard by a panel of 9 judges, two of whom are Scottish judges (as in; members of the Scottish bar; practised Scottish law in the Scottish courts; were appointed to the Scottish bench and were judges in the Scottish courts before being appointed to the Supreme Court). I believe the convention in the Supreme Court is that when questions of Scottish law arise, the non-Scottish judges on the panel will normally defer to their Scottish colleagues (and correspondingly for questions of NI law and E&W law). So the opinions of these two judges may be decisive. Let’s hope they don’t disagree. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/324 "2019-09-12T01:23:37Z")
Remind me again: what would the penalty be if Boris Johnson fails to ask for an extension? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/325 "2019-09-12T01:41:13Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Remind me again: what would the penalty be if Boris Johnson fails to ask for an extension? Depending on what you read, anything from nothing to indefinite imprisonment. If he stays as PM, _and_ a court orders him to follow the law, _and_ all appeals are exhausted by 19th October, _and_ he still refuses to request the extension, he may well then be in contempt of court. In that case, we have a constitutional crisis. Should it happen differently, for example if he resigns as PM or if the law gets tied up in legal wrangling for long enough, the consequences to him will probably be entirely political, in that he will have to seek election when the public knows he’s done these things. There’s a significant amount of voters who will think he’s a hero if we do leave the EU by 31st October, sadly. The penalty for the country is that we’re utterly fucked, we either leave the EU without a deal, we have a Government that’s even less functional than currently, or both. My prediction - Boris finds a way to not ask for an extension, we crash out without a deal, and there’s an election where he ends up leading another minority government. And the UK pretty much collapses. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/326 "2019-09-12T02:14:42Z")
My guess, for what it’s worth: If the requirement to seek an extension “bites” Johnson resigns as PM (but not as party leader), protesting volubly, rather than (a) seek an extension or (b) break the law and have to deal with the consequences of that. An interim/caretaker prime minister complies with the law and seeks an extension. Whether or not an extension is granted, a general election follows soon after. Johnson campaigns as the man so committed to making Brexit happen that he resigned rather than request an extension, and he seeks to demonise his opponents as opponents of makign Brexit happen and, therefore, of the Will of the People. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/327 "2019-09-12T03:17:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Remind me again: what would the penalty be if Boris Johnson fails to ask for an extension? The important question is not whether, if Johnson breaks the law, he will suffer a sanction and if so what saction. That’s a secondary issue. (Though it is fun to speculate about.) The important question is, if Johnson breaks the law, what mechanisms and remedies are available to ensure that the law is nevertheless carried into effect, and the intention of the legislature realised? Can the consequences Johnson’s lawbreaking be rectifed by the actiosn of others and, if so, what others and what actions? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/328 "2019-09-12T06:12:26Z")
Thank you both. I’m thinking that Johnson will be coy and mostly silent, except when he’s making vague promises that he’s going to ask for the extension. Then he’ll spend all day on 31 October out of sight and resign at 11:50pm, claiming that he just couldn’t bring himself to ask for the extension, but he didn’t want to break the law, so he resigned before the deadline. And it’s just not his fault that a new PM couldn’t be placed in time to ask for the extension before the deadline passed. He’s a man of principle, you see. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/329 "2019-09-12T06:35:51Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Thank you both. > > I’m thinking that Johnson will be coy and mostly silent, except when he’s making vague promises that he’s going to ask for the extension. Then he’ll spend all day on 31 October out of sight and resign at 11:50pm, claiming that he just couldn’t bring himself to ask for the extension, but he didn’t want to break the law, so he resigned before the deadline. And it’s just not his fault that a new PM couldn’t be placed in time to ask for the extension before the deadline passed. He’s a man of principle, you see. This won’t work. They thought of that, as a result of which the obligation set out in the legislation is to ask for an extension “no later than 19 October 2019”. So if his “with one bound he was free” move is going to be resignation, he has to resign before 20 October. That leaves 11 days to identify an interim PM who is willing to carry out the duties of the office; should be enough. ---
**Author:** ![Oswald\_Bastable](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oswald_bastable/32/214_2.png) [@Oswald\_Bastable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oswald_Bastable)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/330 "2019-09-12T06:40:53Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Then he’ll spend all day on 31 October out of sight and resign at 11:50pm, claiming that he just couldn’t bring himself to ask for the extension, but he didn’t want to break the law, so he resigned before the deadline. I’m not sure of the exact process, but would he not have to tender his resignation to the Queen and she have to accept it? The old dear will be in bed by ten to midnight, surely. OB ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/331 "2019-09-12T06:55:16Z")
[As a professor of law and government, I believe today’s court ruling means Johnson must immediately resign](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-resign-brexit-constitutional-law-supreme-court-queen-a9101806.html) > [@](#): > > Johnson’s suspension of parliament could easily have had the effect of stopping MPs from giving the weight of law to their widely-held view. Only thanks to the efforts of Hilary Benn and others do we now have a Bill in place which demands that Johnson seek an extension of Article 50 should no-deal loom on 31 October. > > If that had not come to pass, then the suspension of parliament by the Queen on the request of her prime minister would, in effect, have changed the law. On such precarious events are new precedents set. > > This raises an important constitutional issue which could easily be lost in the relief that the worst outcome was averted. Boris Johnson has now unsettled the convention of the length of proroguing and its purpose. If three weeks are ok, then why not three months – or three years? What would prevent this? And if laws can effectively be changed by blocking parliament from sitting, then we really would be talking about a coup in more than name. > > And that is what Scotland’s highest court found. They held that the prime minister’s intention to suspend parliament was to avoid its scrutiny of his government. In effect, Johnson has been found to have lied to the Queen, to our parliament and the public. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/332 "2019-09-12T07:07:05Z")
[Matt cartoon](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2019/09/11/1209-MATT-GALLERY-WEB-P1.png) ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/333 "2019-09-12T09:11:38Z")
Boris Johnson is a liar? Who knew? :smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/334 "2019-09-12T09:55:56Z")
I watched John Oliver’s latest piece on Boris. The winning line: > [@Last Week Tonight](#): > > If you want to make one at home the recipe is: ‘simply boil one clown’. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/335 "2019-09-12T10:33:39Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > This won’t work. They thought of that, as a result of which the obligation set out in the legislation is to ask for an extension “no later than 19 October 2019”. So if his “with one bound he was free” move is going to be resignation, he has to resign before 20 October. That leaves 11 days to identify an interim PM who is willing to carry out the duties of the office; should be enough. Great to hear; thanks for the information. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/336 "2019-09-12T11:42:31Z")
I suppose it’s theoretically not impossible that a failure to do what the law now requires might justify a charge of [“malfeasance in public office”](https://www.lawtonslaw.co.uk/resources/misfeasance-in-public-office/) or at least nonfeasance - certainly the [top rank civil servants are worried](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/11/civil-service-union-tells-pm-dont-make-our-members-break-law) about the prospect that they might fall foul of the law if ministers ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/337 "2019-09-12T12:54:07Z")
BoJo denies lying to HM - but then, he would, wouldn’t he?: [Boris Johnson says he didn't lie to the Queen over suspension of Parliament | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/12/uk/boris-johnson-brexit-queen-gbr-intl/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/338 "2019-09-12T14:09:15Z")
If he’s not careful, she’ll invite him back to Balmoral for a week or two. In November. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/339 "2019-09-12T15:11:44Z")
In a hairshirt and no shoes. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/340 "2019-09-12T15:42:10Z")
“We have to go to a foreign country now to visit Balmoral, Boris. Are you happy?” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/341 "2019-09-12T15:52:30Z")
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