# Prime Minister Boris Johnson tries to lead the UK but has resigned on July 7, 2022 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872 "2019-07-30T14:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/542 "2019-09-26T11:27:25Z")
is it me or does the EU seem to think that either the UK will 1 just give up or 2 have another vote overturning the whole thing if there’s a new government their attitude seems to be “well just be patient and sanity will prevail” sanity being remaining maybe with changes … ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/543 "2019-09-26T12:39:55Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > It’s always entertaining to see Brexiteers and Johnson supporters pretending not be, here on the SDMB. But if it looks like a duck… 😃 I’ve been vocally against Brexit, I voted Remain, and have vocally supported the Lib Dens recently. I certainly tend to the conservative in my politics, but that doesn’t mean supporting any party or politician unquestioningly. > [@](#): > > And Johnson will be breaking the law if he doesn’t request an extension. Most legal opinion holds that he can be foun guilty of contempt and jailed, and someone else can be nominated by Parliament to ask the EU for an extension. If he’s still PM at that point, and if the laws not changed, that might be the case, but would have to be tested in court. Which could take longer than 12 days, which would mean no deal. The last few weeks have shown that Johnson is willing to act unlawfully. > [@](#): > > Johnson a talented politician?  🤣 > > That must be the most amusing thing you’ve ever said on this thread. He’s been outmaneuvered, blocked, defeated, again and again at every turn. He’s lost 6 parliamentary votes so far. He’s lost his majority by expelling 21 MPs. He’s been smacked hard over the head by the Supreme Court and forced unwillingly to come back to Parliament. He’s not getting his way about the election he so desperately wants. > > A number of his remaining MPs are[feeling a ‘sense of doom’](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/25/one-nation-tories-admit-to-sense-of-doom-over-boris-johnsons-tactics) and discussing ways to get rid of him. > > Would to care to point to any examples of his political ‘successes’? He’s Prime Minister, for one thing, and despite all his supposed bad actions maintains the confidence of the house despite not having a majority. He’s manoeuvring towards getting Brexit next month then getting reelected - his actions are playing well to the public. If The Sun keeps supporting him, he is doing well. Also, he was a better mayor of London than his predecessor or successor - although Ken did much better than expected. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/544 "2019-09-26T13:24:30Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > He’s lost 6 parliamentary votes so far. 7 now. The Talented Mr Johnson can’t even persuade the Commons to allow a 3-day recess so that the Tories can attend their own party conference. It would take a heart of stone not to laugh… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/545 "2019-09-26T14:10:18Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > 7 now. The Talented Mr Johnson can’t even persuade the Commons to allow a 3-day recess so that the Tories can attend their own party conference. It would take a heart of stone not to laugh… And it also destroys any claim that the Oppositon simply wants business as usual, as if propping up a minority government whilst simultaneously preventing them from governing hasn’t done that. The longer they go without removing Johnson, or allowing an election, the more blame they will share for whatever happens next. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/546 "2019-09-26T14:40:24Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > 7 now. The Talented Mr Johnson can’t even persuade the Commons to allow a 3-day recess so that the Tories can attend their own party conference… Hard to blame them. Why should they give him a break just to go and give a speech bashing them in a seaside resort somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/547 "2019-09-26T14:40:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > He’s Prime Minister, for one thing Because nobody trusts him, the vote of no-confidence (or general election) will only take place when the threat of ‘no deal’ Brexit is removed. > [@Steophan](#): > > and despite all his supposed bad actions maintains the confidence of the house despite not having a majority. He keeps losing votes in Parliament - what ‘confidence’? 😕 And what happened to his majority? He sacked a load of his own party! :eek: > [@Steophan](#): > > He’s manoeuvring towards getting Brexit next month then getting reelected - his actions are playing well to the public. He has made no progress with the EU; his attempted suspension of Parliament has been declared illegal by the Supreme Court; a bill has been passed strongly limiting his chance of ‘no deal’ - what manoeuvring did you have in mind? [His approval rating is : - 33% positive - 48% negative - 18% neutral]('[Boris Johnson popularity & fame | YouGov](https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Boris_Johnson)) > [@Steophan](#): > > Also, he was a better mayor of London than his predecessor or successor - although Ken did much better than expected. Boris’ failed plan to build a bridge covered with trees and flowers over the River Thames in central London cost a total of £53m. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/548 "2019-09-26T14:44:52Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I mean, Johnson’s been trying to get that to happen but Parliament won’t agree. UK Trump is the FIRST person QE2 should fire. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/549 "2019-09-26T14:50:44Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > UK Trump is the FIRST person QE2 should fire. Again, he’s asked Parliament to allow that but they won’t. Are you really suggesting that, after the Supreme Court has reaffirmed in the strongest possible terms that Parliament is supreme, that the Queen should ignore their refusal to allow an election or to hold a confidence vote? Parliament wants Johnson as PM, because they feel that keeping him there will lead to him being humiliated, and that is more important to them than resolving Brexit, or representing the people of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/550 "2019-09-26T14:56:30Z")
> [@glee](#): > > He keeps losing votes in Parliament - what ‘confidence’? 😕 The only attempted no-confidence vote against him so far was rejected. Parliament, due to not expressing a lack of confidence in him, necessarily shows that they have it. I suppose it’s possible a court could rule otherwise, they seem to be up for changing conventions at the moment, but it would take that to show a lack of confidence without a vote. Whether Parliament ha confidence in him as PM has nothing to do with the opinions of any MPs, but with the action - or lack of it - of the body as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/551 "2019-09-26T14:57:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > And it also destroys any claim that the Oppositon simply wants business as usual **Steophan** , are you really _sure_ you’re not a Johnson supporter? Is it possible you could be one without knowing it?  😁 Considering that Parliament has already lost so many sitting days due to Johnson’s unlawful attempt to close them down, it’s hardly reasonable to ask them to lose even more days… in which they will indeed conduct business as usual. ---
**Author:** ![DCTrekkie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dctrekkie/32/18862_2.png) [@DCTrekkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCTrekkie)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/552 "2019-09-26T15:07:38Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Again, he’s asked Parliament to allow that but they won’t. Are you really suggesting that, after the Supreme Court has reaffirmed in the strongest possible terms that Parliament is supreme, that the Queen should ignore their refusal to allow an election or to hold a confidence vote? > > Parliament wants Johnson as PM, because they feel that keeping him there will lead to him being humiliated, and that is more important to them than resolving Brexit, or representing the people of the country. You’re either delusional or trolling. It’s been explained to you multiple times that the only reason Boris hasn’t been voted out is that no-one trusts him not to break the law again and take us out with no deal. As soon as that danger has passed he will be gone. It doesn’t mean he has the confidence of parliament, as evidenced by his 7-0 record of lost votes, and as the Queen has been dealing with politicians longer than many of us have been alive, I think she’ll be able to work that out. As for “representing the people of this country”, you do acknowledge that the Remain camp is just as big as the Leave camp, and are entitled to the same level of representation? The Leave camp isn’t even a majority of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/553 "2019-09-26T15:08:19Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > **Steophan** , are you really _sure_ you’re not a Johnson supporter? Is it possible you could be one without knowing it?  😁 I’m not, no. I used to like him, back in his days as Mayor of London, as he did a good job then, but what I want to see now is for Parliament to remove him, install iseally Harman or Clarke as a temporary leader, and get Brexit out of the way long enough to have an election. In which I will vote Lib Dem, unless there’s an independent here who could win - which won’t be Soubry as she’s possibly the most hated person in this constituency at the moment. Which is actually a shame, as I tend to agree with her politics, but she’s completely destroyed any chance of being elected. Not that long ago, she would have been a mainstream Conservative, which shows how much politics has pulled away from the centre these days. What I _do_ think is that Corbyn is just as dishonest, power hungry, bad for the country, and determined to leave the EU as Johnson is, and all that making him PM would do is to delay things to no effect, and cause at least as much harm to the country in the long term. But, you know, I’d probably get a few more quid in benefits for a few years, so I will no doubt be told I should sell the rest of the country down the river and vote for a hard left nutjob. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/554 "2019-09-26T15:15:02Z")
> [@DCTrekkie](#): > > It’s been explained to you multiple times that the only reason Boris hasn’t been voted out is that no-one trusts him not to break the law again and take us out with no deal. As soon as that danger has passed he will be gone. As things currently stand, we are leaving the EU without a deal on October 31st, and Johnson is on record as saying that he will do whatever he can to achieve that. Not only do I not trust him to ask the EU for an extension, I am fairly sure he will not, and I’m also sure that he will claim that he’s doing so legally, and maintain that claim in the courts for long enough that it becomes irrelevant. I want him gone, I want this country to remain in the EU, and I want parliament to prioritise _that_ over trying to humiliate Johnson. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t mean he has the confidence of parliament, as evidenced by his 7-0 record of lost votes, and as the Queen has been dealing with politicians longer than many of us have been alive, I think she’ll be able to work that out. Are you suggesting that the Queen should dissolve Parliament against its wishes, and install a new Government without any actual request? That wouls be truly extraordinary, and a terible solution to this situation. > [@](#): > > As for “representing the people of this country”, you do acknowledge that the Remain camp is just as big as the Leave camp, and are entitled to the same level of representation? The Leave camp isn’t even a majority of the population. Exactly, which is why THEY NEED TO GET JOHNSON OUT AND STOP BREXIT INSTEAD OF FUCKING ABOUT. But they won’t, because Corbyn is too fucking fixated on leaving the EU on his terms and humiliating Johnson than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/555 "2019-09-26T16:18:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > As things currently stand, we are leaving the EU without a deal on October 31st, and Johnson is on record as saying that he will do whatever he can to achieve that. Not only do I not trust him to ask the EU for an extension, I am fairly sure he will not, and I’m also sure that he will claim that he’s doing so legally, and maintain that claim in the courts for long enough that it becomes irrelevant. Amazing! Nobody has thought of that possibility except you! :rolleyes: I’m sure all the expert lawyers and experienced parliamentarians, who went to so much trouble to draft and pass the Benn Act, have never even considered the possibility that Johnson may ignore it, and how to prevent a no-deal Brexit in that case. Homework: Find out what measures are already being taken in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/556 "2019-09-26T16:20:44Z")
The EU has already taken the position that Parliament can ask to withdraw Article 50 directly, going around the PM. Isn’t it just one more step to say they recognize that UK law requires a request for a delay, and simply grant it? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/557 "2019-09-26T16:22:55Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Amazing! Nobody has thought of that possibility except you! :rolleyes: Of course they’ve thought of it, the problem is Corbyn doesn’t care because his priorities are leaving the EU and humiliating Johnson, possibly not in that order. About the only thing he’s been consistent in throughout the last few years is wanting to leave. It amazes me how much the (justified) hatred of Johnson blinds people to the flaws of Corbyn. Do you honestly think, at this point, that if Johnson is still PM by the 31st of next month we won’t be leaving on that date? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/558 "2019-09-26T16:26:55Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The EU has already taken the position that Parliament can ask to withdraw Article 50 directly, going around the PM. Isn’t it just one more step to say they recognize that UK law requires a request for a delay, and simply grant it? The delay will not be automatically granted, and some European leaders (Macron) are against granting it at all, while most won’t grant it without being given a good reason to. Another (x) months of bullshit will not be considered a good reason. I doubt they would consider the request made even if it wasn’t, but I hope that somehow what you suggest could happen, and that the extension would be granted. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/559 "2019-09-26T16:41:11Z")
From the [Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/26/boris-johnsons-brexit-rhetoric-condemned-as-mps-tell-of-death-threats-politics-live), 10 minutes ago: > [@](#): > > **Opposition parties to meet again on Monday to consider ‘all parliamentary mechanisms to stop no deal’** > > The opposition parties are going to meet again on Monday to consider “all parliamentary mechanisms to stop a no-deal [Brexit]”, the Labour party has said. In a statement about this afternoon’s talks, Labour said the parties agreed that stopping a no-deal Brexit was a priority and that the language used by the PM was unacceptable. > > The parties agreed that “any election without a lock preventing no deal would not get through parliament”. And Labour made it clear that “it wants an election as soon there’s a lock against no deal.” > > The meeting was attended by Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell, Valerie Vaz and Shami Chakrabarti from Labour, Ian Blackford from the SNP, Jo Swinson from the Lib Dems, Anna Soubry from the Independent Group for Change, Caroline Lucas from the Green and Leanne Wood from Plaid Cymru. … and there is currently a separate initiative going through the courts to preempt Johnson ignoring the Benn Act. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/560 "2019-09-26T16:50:52Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Homework: Find out what measures are already being taken in this regard. Bonus homework: have a gander at the _nobile officium_ power of the Inner House of the Court of Session in Edinburgh, and check out what petitions have recently been lodged with the Court. [spoiler][Anti-Brexiters file new legal challenge to force article 50 extension | Brexit | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/12/anti-brexiters-new-legal-challenge-scotland-to-force-article-50-extension) It’s very much the last-chance nuclear option though, but it is being prepared for[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/561 "2019-09-26T17:09:37Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Parliament wants Johnson as PM, because they feel that keeping him there will lead to him being humiliated, and that is more important to them than resolving Brexit, or representing the people of the country. This makes me look like :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872.md?page=29)