# Prime Minister Boris Johnson tries to lead the UK but has resigned on July 7, 2022 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872 "2019-07-30T14:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/562 "2019-09-26T17:12:33Z")
What’s important here is that we blame everyone else for what Johnson’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/563 "2019-09-26T17:19:40Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > What’s important here is that we blame everyone else for what Johnson’s doing. No, I’m blaming Johnson for what he’s doing. I’m blaming everyone else for they’re doing, or more importantly not doing, which allows Johnson to get away with doing what he’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/564 "2019-09-26T22:26:46Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Are you suggesting that the Queen should dissolve Parliament against its wishes, and install a new Government without any actual request? That wouls be truly extraordinary, and a terible solution to this situation. My suggestion is the Queen fire UKTrump and appoint someone that can bring an end to the Brexit debacle - even if that means appointing a PM willing to have anothr referandum. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/565 "2019-09-26T22:58:40Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My suggestion is the Queen fire UKTrump and appoint someone that can bring an end to the Brexit debacle - even if that means appointing a PM willing to have anothr referandum. So, you are suggesting that she ignore Parliament. That couldn’t possibly backfire… ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/566 "2019-09-27T00:25:12Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, I’m blaming Johnson for what he’s doing. I’m blaming everyone else for they’re doing, or more importantly not doing, which allows Johnson to get away with doing what he’s doing. What exactly is Johnson ‘doing’? So far he’s lost his majority in Parliament (by sacking his own MPs and having members of his own party walk out), lost a string of votes in Parliament and had his only actual ‘action’ stated as illegal and reversed by the courts. He has made no progress in negotiations with the EU and been exposed yet again as a liar. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/567 "2019-09-27T00:31:07Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My suggestion is the Queen fire UKTrump and appoint someone that can bring an end to the Brexit debacle - even if that means appointing a PM willing to have anothr referandum. This is not an action that the Queen would ever consider, let alone actually do. The debacle will eventually be resolved by one or more of these: - an EU deal being passed by Parliament - a general election - a second referendum (with better options :smack:) - a vote to rescind Article 50 ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/568 "2019-09-27T01:03:13Z")
The latest speculation is that [Boris will try to suspend the Act that was recently passed](https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1177283573243678722) that would prevent a No-Deal Brexit, and therefore the UK would exit the EU in October without a deal. > [@Former Conservative PM John Major](#): > > My fear is that the Government will seek to bypass _Statute Law_, by passing an Order of Council to suspend the Act until after 31 October. > > It is important to note that an Order of Council can be passed by Privy Councillors - that is Government Ministers - _without_ involving HM The Queen. The opposition may therefore try to topple Boris before the 31 October date to prevent this from happening, but they can’t agree on who should be the interim Prime Minister before a new general election is held. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/569 "2019-09-27T01:36:05Z")
> [@glee](#): > > This is not an action that the Queen would ever consider, let alone actually do. > > The debacle will eventually be resolved by one or more of these: > > - an EU deal being passed by Parliament > - a general election > - a second referendum (with better options :smack:) > - a vote to rescind Article 50 A general election is not a resolution to the debacle. At most, it might open the way to the UK making a clear choice for one of the options which _are_ resolutions. But there’s a sporting chance that it might not even do that. Similarly, a second referendum isn’t a resolution. It’s just a mechanism for choosing a resolution. There are only three possible resolutions: - Revoke the UK’s notice to leave the EU, and remain a member. - Leave the EU on the terms of a withdrawal agreement (which, realistically, is going to be the withdrawal agreement the UK has already negotiated, or something very, very similar to it). - Leave the EU without a withdrawal agreement. A general election or a second referendum represents progress only if it’s a mechanism by which the UK chooses one of these three options. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/570 "2019-09-27T02:58:05Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > - Leave the EU on the terms of a withdrawal agreement (which, realistically, is going to be the withdrawal agreement the UK has already negotiated, or something very, very similar to it). Actually there are two fundamental alternatives regarding the withdrawal agreement–backstop covering the whole UK or backstop limited to Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/571 "2019-09-27T03:51:40Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Actually there are two fundamental alternatives regarding the withdrawal agreement–backstop covering the whole UK or backstop limited to Northern Ireland. Yeah. Both of those have been negotiated with the EU - first the NI-only backstop and then, at the UK’s request, the UK-wide one, which is the version the UK government signed off on. Either version would probably still be available. I consider both of them to be embraced in the concept of “the withdrawal agreement the UK has already negotiated, or something very, very similar to it”. I’m not sure that I’d regard the differnce between them as representing “two fundamental alternatives”. The backstop is, after all, just one aspect of the agreement, and it’s a transitional aspect; whichever version of the backstop is included will operate only until a long-term treaty is put in place, governing the relationship between the UK and the EU, whose terms are effecive to avoid a hard border. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/572 "2019-09-27T08:45:39Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > A general election is not a resolution to the debacle. > > At most, it might open the way to the UK making a clear choice for one of the options which _are_ resolutions. But there’s a sporting chance that it might not even do that. > > Similarly, a second referendum isn’t a resolution. It’s just a mechanism for choosing a resolution. > > There are only three possible resolutions: > > - Revoke the UK’s notice to leave the EU, and remain a member. > - Leave the EU on the terms of a withdrawal agreement (which, realistically, is going to be the withdrawal agreement the UK has already negotiated, or something very, very similar to it). > - Leave the EU without a withdrawal agreement. > > A general election or a second referendum represents progress only if it’s a mechanism by which the UK chooses one of these three options. Fair point. I should have said that the options I gave were to make progress towards a resolution. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/573 "2019-09-27T10:30:00Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > The backstop is, after all, just one aspect of the agreement, and it’s a transitional aspect; whichever version of the backstop is included will operate only until a long-term treaty is put in place, governing the relationship between the UK and the EU, whose terms are effecive to avoid a hard border. Or in other words, the issues will be fundamentally the same then: even if a transitional withdrawal deal gets through parliament, we shall still have to face the border problem, the standards/checks problem and the legal venue problem. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/574 "2019-09-27T12:08:26Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > What’s important here is that we blame everyone else for what Johnson’s doing. The public had a chance to vote for a remain party in 2017 if that was what they wanted, and parliament themselves have had numerous chances and two years since then to either agree to a deal or to say exactly what they do want. All that has come to light in that time is what they \*don’t \*want, not a single coherent idea that the whole of parliament can get behind. Seeing as what they _don’t_ want is the default position and has been since the triggering of article 50, that is not in their hands to rule-out and I don’t agree that this is all Boris’s fault, we are certainly not in this position in the first place because of him. He is playing games amongst the confusion and trying to pull a fast one but the confusion is not of his creation. The whole of parliament is responsible for the current situation and Corbyn only cares about getting his hands on power. If a no deal Brexit is the price for that he’ll be happy to pay it. Had he called for a NCV a few weeks ago a pledged to put a more neutral and less incompetent and more trusted figure into the temporary PM position then we would not be here. He couldn’t bring himself to do it. He is weak and self-serving and it shows. Had he taken that course of action he’d have shot-up in the estimation of many people. What a grown-up and statesman-like thing to do, sacrificing ambition for the good of the country, imagine if he’d approached Ken Clarke? a _Tory_ for crying out loud. But he did none of that and I think the only reason for doing so is that he did not want that to work. Draw your own conclusions why. Personally I wouldn’t be surprised to see May’s deal, or a close version thereof, reintroduced at the 11th hour. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/575 "2019-09-27T16:09:32Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > The latest speculation is that [Boris will try to suspend the Act that was recently passed](https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1177283573243678722) that would prevent a No-Deal Brexit… Incipient tyranny must be confronted and opposed whenever and wherever it arises. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/576 "2019-09-27T16:20:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Opponents said Johnson’s language could incite violence. But he said the country’s social tensions were being caused by Britain’s failure to leave the EU more than three years after voting in a referendum to do so. > > “Once you do that, then so much of the heat and the anxiety will come out of the debate,” Johnson said Friday as he visited a hospital — part of unofficial campaigning for an election that looks set to come soon. “Get it done and then we will all be able to move on.” > [@](#): > > Johnson’s divisive senior adviser Dominic Cummings also dismissed concerns that politicians’ heated rhetoric was polarizing society, and said the government’s plan to deliver Brexit on Oct. 31, come what may, would succeed. > > “We are enjoying this,” said Cummings. “We are going to leave and we are going to win.” > **[UK's Boris Johnson defends his fraught Brexit language](https://apnews.com/article/brexit-business-london-boris-johnson-international-news-ada164c224bb433a87f846d4f5e59412)** > > LONDON (AP) — British Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Friday rebuffed allegations that he was inciting violence by accusing his Brexit opponents of "surrender" and "betrayal," saying the only way to calm the simmering tensions was to stop delaying... The plan is to do nothing and leave without a deal. Anything else said is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/577 "2019-09-27T17:13:35Z")
Great article by Marina Hyde about [Dominic Cummings and people vs. parliament](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/27/tories-dominic-cummings-people-v-parliament-election) > [@](#): > > Third, as is blindingly obvious to everyone else, Cummings is one of those masterminds who hates his henchmen. He hates the Conservative party. He believes he’s surrounded by idiots. Again: that’s you, babe. > > What’s amazing, given he’s written all of this stuff down, and at length, is the selective deafness of the Tories going along with it. They hear the stuff Dom is saying about things being swept away. But they don’t hear the bits that will eventually mean them. > > Consider the irony of the European Research Group currently obeying a man who described them as a “narcissist-delusional subset”, adding: “You should be treated like a metastasising tumour and excised from the UK body politic.” It’s not a hugely opaque statement. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/578 "2019-09-27T22:47:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Also, he was a better mayor of London than his predecessor or successor - although Ken did much better than expected. > [@glee](#): > > Boris’ failed plan to build a bridge covered with trees and flowers over the River Thames in central London cost a total of £53m. :smack: That’s one good example. London doesn’t need more bridges in that area, and a “garden bridge” is impossible at that elevation over a river (they kept comparing it to the Highline in NYC, as if the local environment is irrelevant), and it was intended to be closed to the public and chargeable for large periods of time, hired out to private companies. It was a terrible idea. And that was just one terrible idea. His main successes were the Barclays Bikes, started by his predecessor, and the Olympics, started by his predecessor. I do give him credit for expanding cycle lane provision. I’d ask Steophan (who does n’t live in London) what he thinks Boris actually did well, but going on his responses to how well Boris is doing right now he’s probably claim even the garden bridge as a success. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/579 "2019-09-27T23:21:22Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The public had a chance to vote for a remain party in 2017 if that was what they wanted The public were told by Boris Johnson that unless we voted Leave 70 million Turks would be able to come over here (swamping a country of 60 million) and that the Leave campaign would put £350,000,000 per week into the (massively popular) National Health Service. **Despite these incredible lies, 48% voted to Remain**. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > and parliament themselves have had numerous chances and two years since then to either agree to a deal or to say exactly what they do want. It was down to the Leave campaign to explain what was on offer, not for Remain to work out what the Leavers intended. (Of course the only thing the Leavers wanted was a no-deal Brexit.) > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t agree that this is all Boris’s fault, we are certainly not in this position in the first place because of him. He is playing games amongst the confusion and trying to pull a fast one but the confusion is not of his creation. It certainly is Boris’ fault (you could argue that Dominic Cummings shares the blame.) **Boris has no clue what to do about the Irish backstop - even after 3 years**. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Corbyn only cares about getting his hands on power. If a no deal Brexit is the price for that he’ll be happy to pay it. Of course you mean **Boris** , not Corbyn! **Boris wanted power at any cost**. He’s prepared to have a ruinous ‘no deal’ Brexit, sack over 20 members of his own party, break the law and lie - just to become Prime Minister. He has no idea how to negotiate, how to organise, how to delegate and how to be truthful. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/580 "2019-09-28T04:32:37Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Great article by Marina Hyde about > > [Dominic Cummings and people vs. parliament](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/27/tories-dominic-cummings-people-v-parliament-election) > > “…Consider the irony of the European Research Group currently obeying a man who described them as a “narcissist-delusional subset”, adding: “You should be treated like a metastasising tumour and excised from the UK body politic…” I wonder what he _really_ means? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872/581 "2019-09-28T05:29:37Z")
> [@glee](#): > > The public were told by Boris Johnson that unless we voted Leave 70 million Turks would be able to come over here (swamping a country of 60 million) A pretty good trick considering the entire population of Turkey in 2017 was less than 80 million. Hell, even _Iraq_ has lost less than one-sixth of its population to refugee and diaspora status due to catastrophic invasion and civil war, nowhere near seven-eighths. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prime-minister-boris-johnson-tries-to-lead-the-uk-but-has-resigned-on-july-7-2022/837872.md?page=30)