# Prince Andrew to lose HRH and military titles - just breaking (01-13-21) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 13, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735 "2022-01-13T17:25:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![cytop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f17d59/32.png) [@cytop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cytop)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/81 "2022-01-16T16:52:45Z")
And the heir apparent has plans to reduce the number of ‘working’ Royals as well … ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/82 "2022-01-16T17:03:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Slimming down the monarchy sounds good on paper. But who’s going to show up at all the ribbon cuttings and other public ceremonies? Less people means more work. Don’t you guys have big companies who are willing to pony up $50k for the Local Authority so that their chief executive or other bigwigs can be the guest of honor? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/83 "2022-01-16T17:12:15Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Whatever you might feel about the pros and cons of a hereditary monarchy, you can’t really call the Mountbatten-Windsors _parasites_ ; they’re pretty much the exemplars of what [TvTropes.org](http://TvTropes.org) calls “Royals Who Actually Do Something”. The respect the monarchy still has is to a large extent attributable to Elizabeth herself. Whatever the failures of her children, she has been a genuinely amazing monarch who takes her job seriously. As a columnist in a Canadian newspaper pointed out this past week. Elizabeth II has visited Moose Jaw more times than she’s visited Manhattan, because the former is part of her job and the latter is not. What respect the monarchy will retain after she’s dead and the job passed to her vastly less respectable son is anyone’s guess. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/84 "2022-01-16T18:29:13Z")
It would seem that in this case, we get punishment first, followed by trial and verdict. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/85 "2022-01-16T19:21:05Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > It would seem that in this case, we get punishment first, followed by trial and verdict.   Long and close association with a notorious paedophile and a convicted child trafficker, and blatant and ridiculous lies told to defend himself, are not sufficient to discredit him? I suggest you read [this short letter to the Queen](https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/republic/pages/432/attachments/original/1642074993/military_letter_to_the_Queen_Jan_2022.pdf?1642074993) from 150 former members of the armed services asking her to strip him of all his military ranks and titles. It sets out the case clearly and succinctly. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/86 "2022-01-16T19:23:12Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Elizabeth II has visited Moose Jaw more times than she’s visited Manhattan, Moosomin, too. Sing another prairie tune. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/87 "2022-01-16T19:27:34Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > It would seem that in this case, we get punishment first, followed by trial and verdict. If Her Majesty had sent Andrew to prison you’d have a point, but she did not. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/88 "2022-01-16T19:30:21Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > It would seem that in this case, we get punishment first, followed by trial and verdict. What nonsense. _Judicial_ punishment requires a trial, but that’s not what this is. Not all forms of punishment are judicial. Do you imagine that someone cannot be fired from their job for misconduct without a criminal trial? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/89 "2022-01-16T19:34:33Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Not all forms of punishment are judicial. Do you imagine that someone cannot be fired from their job for misconduct without a criminal trial? An example, from this very day: the president of the University of Michigan was just fired, due to an inappropriate relationship with a subordinate, and using his university email account for communications with that person. There may well have not been any laws broken at all in this case; it was still inappropriate, and almost undoubtedly in violation of the employer’s rules. > **[University of Michigan president fired after probe into alleged affair with a...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/01/16/mark-schlissel-fired-university-michigan/)** > > The University of Michigan's board fired Mark S. Schlissel after it found evidence of interactions with a subordinate that were "inconsistent with promoting the dignity and reputation" of Michigan's public flagship. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/90 "2022-01-16T19:53:51Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > It would seem that in this case, we get punishment first, followed by trial and verdict. That’s already been well answered by multiple posters. I’ll just add that “trial and verdict” is neither required nor possible on matters of preserving the dignity and reputation of the monarchy. Andrew’s name is mud in the eyes of not just British people, but in the eyes of citizens of all the Commonwealth countries where the Queen is the head of state. And this sordid reputation is based on very compelling evidence, along with his embarrassingly inept attempts at denial. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/91 "2022-01-16T20:01:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The respect the monarchy still has is to a large extent attributable to Elizabeth herself. Whatever the failures of her children, she has been a genuinely amazing monarch who takes her job seriously. Absolutely. A truly amazing lady. > [@RickJay](#): > > What respect the monarchy will retain after she’s dead and the job passed to her vastly less respectable son is anyone’s guess. There’s been a lot of wishful speculation that Charles might decline the throne and let it go to Prince William. William and Kate are really popular, and haven’t been mired in the kinds of controversy that Charles has. And I don’t think there’s any great love for Camilla, either. But, AIUI, no way that’s gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/92 "2022-01-16T20:27:55Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > At least currently – the criminal law that would apply would normally be that which was in effect at the time – New York State law makes patronizing prostitution a class A misdemeanor. _But,_ > Pandering someone **under 18** is a Class C felony > Trafficking (pimping that involves indenture or otherwise violation of consent) someone **under 18** is a class B felony > [Cite](https://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article230.php) > > Of course part of the big deal is the operation did not limit itself to NY, > > > [@Senegoid](#): > > > > What about transporting young girls who are of-age across state lines for consensual prostitution, if the prostitution is illegal? > > Well yeah – taking people across state lines for purposes of illegal prostitution triggers the federal statute which for these purposes sets the age for “minor” at \<18 regardless of the states’ own ages of consent. > > A quick Google/Wiki search gives me: > > > 18 USC 2421 - Whoever knowingly transports **any individual** in interstate or foreign commerce, or in any Territory or Possession of the United States, with intent that **such individual engage in prostitution, or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense** , or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both. > > > > 18 USC 2422 - (a) Whoever knowingly **persuades, induces, entices, or coerces any individual to travel in interstate or foreign commerce** , or in any Territory or Possession of the United States, **to engage in prostitution** , or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. > > > > (b) Whoever, using the mail or any facility or means of interstate or foreign commerce, or within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States knowingly persuades, induces, entices, or coerces **any individual who has not attained the age of 18 years, to engage in prostitution** or any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not less than 10 years [to life]. > > (emphasis and edits mine) Again, what would apply in a criminal case would be the laws in effect at the time of the events but I don’t see how they would have been much different in this time frame. It’s also a matter of who is the guilty party. Most likely it would be Epstein and/or Maxwell. Was any money exchanged or was this a favor to a famous Royal? Did Andrew transport her across state lines for prostitution or was it Epstein? The pandering would be Epstein again. If he didn’t pay for it Andrew might not be guilty of soliciting either. That’s before I bother looking at what the statute of limitations is for each charge. His lack of morality is clear but it’s unlikely he could be found guilty of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/93 "2022-01-16T20:31:03Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But, AIUI, no way that’s gonna happen. It would be an offense to the memory of his mother were Charles to give up the job at any point prior to death. It’s about the last thing she’d want him to do. So, to be honest, I won’t be the slightest bit surprised if he does it. That said, as old as he is, we might have King Charles III for twenty years if he wants the job. He’s in good health and his father damn near got to 100. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/94 "2022-01-16T20:59:46Z")
n/m, saw the later mod note. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/95 "2022-01-16T23:15:15Z")
They won’t be affected officially. And that’s fair, as far as conferring titles on people at all is fair - they didn’t do anything. It’s highly unlikely they even covered for him or knew anything was going on. Only the Queen actually gets any official state funding. But some of that funding will be diverted to the “working royals” - the ones who mainly stand in for the Queen, which might involve some foreign travel that could be fun, but also formal appearances that aren’t fun. Beatrice and Eugenie don’t do that. They turn up at some events as members of the family, but that’s it. They do still have bodyguards paid for by the crown - there was talk of getting rid of it, but Andrew protested. He’s aware that protecting young women is important if it’s his own daughters that are concerned. (FWIW I think continuing the bodyguards for them was sensible when Andrew protested, and probably still is - they’re just such obvious targets for terrorism that it’d cost us less to have them guarded than to deal with the fall-out of them being killed - but that won’t be the case forever). FWIW, His earned military rank, as opposed to his honorary ones, hasn’t been stripped yet. That’d be a different process. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/96 "2022-01-17T01:21:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think the next US government is quite likely to be a fascist dictatorship and we’re going to regret not having a constitutional monarchy. You might want to read up on [Italian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Italy_(1922%E2%80%931943)) history; the first fascist dictatorship happened in a constitutional monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/97 "2022-01-17T01:29:43Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > the first fascist dictatorship happened in a constitutional monarchy But the monarchs also had a hand in the downfall of the Fascists as well as the Japanese regime. Without such a bulwark, however theoretical, the Fascist Council may not have been able to depose Mussolini and the Japanese may not have surrendered before even more of their countrypeople (and not a few more U.S. troops) had been killed. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/98 "2022-01-17T01:37:26Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/99 "2022-01-17T02:59:22Z")
**Charles in Charge** Looks like it Charles and Wills who pushed the Queen to do the deed: > **[How Prince Charles planned Prince Andrew's downfall over Christmas](https://www.geo.tv/amp/393693-how-prince-charles-planned-prince-andrews-downfall-over-christmas)** > > Prince Charles is said to have been sharpening the knife over Christmas ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735/100 "2022-01-17T04:30:32Z")
I once worked with a guy who had gone to high school with Prince Andrew. This would have been the late 1970s. It was Lakefield College School, a private boys’ school in Peterborough, Ontario, Canada. My co-worker knew Andrew, and had classes with him. They knew each other, though they did not know each other well. But my co-worker knew him well enough that he said that the name “Randy Andy” fitted. Andrew was always on the prowl for women, and often succeeded in getting them. Apparently, he did a lot better at that, than a lot of us similarly-aged high school guys did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-andrew-to-lose-hrh-and-military-titles-just-breaking-01-13-21/957735.md?page=6)