# Prince Charles is the Duke of Rothesay in Scotland? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 1, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956 "2011-06-01T14:21:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/1 "2011-06-01T14:21:00Z")
According to a caption from a royal photo… “The Duke of Rothesay, President, The Prince’s Trust-Scotland, meets young chefs at Dumfries House, Cumnock, Ayrshire, 31 May 2011. The Prince of Wales is known officially as the Duke of Rothesay when in Scotland.” [http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=215289891826182&set=a.215264105162094.55209.151274568227715&type=1&theater](http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=215289891826182&set=a.215264105162094.55209.151274568227715&type=1&theater) So Prince Charles is known as the Duke of Rothesay in Scotland. I assume he officially known and the Prince of Wales in Wales or England. What is he known officially as in Northern Ireland or various countries of the Commonwealth? And why does he have a different title in Scotland? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/2 "2011-06-01T14:22:50Z")
He’s also sometimes known as the Duke of Cornwall, especially when the media refers to him and his wife together. He’s the Duke of Rothesay in Scotland because that’s his role up there. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/3 "2011-06-01T15:13:45Z")
The monarch of England’s eldest son is automatically the Duke of Cornwall; this dates back to before the 1707 Union. He may also be created Prince of Wales; this is the gift of the sovereign, not automatic. Likewise, the monarch of Scotland’s oldest son is automatically Duke of Rothesay. As the eldest son of the monarch of the United Kingdom including both realms, Charles is Duke of both Cornwall and Rothesday (and of course was created Prince of Wales as well). He is also Earl of Chester, Earl of Carrick, Baron Renfrew, and Lord of the Isles, and Chieftain of Royal Clan Stewart, as well as holding high rank in several knightly orders. ---
**Author:** ![KP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a9adbd/32.png) [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/4 "2011-06-01T15:27:39Z")
This is actually pretty common in every area of life. The chief of a hospital radiology department may also be the president of the state medical society or the American College of Radiology, both arguably higher ranking or more notable positions, but in the hospital, he’s “The Chief”, not “The President” ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/5 "2011-06-01T15:42:25Z")
Although it wasn’t unknown for him to be referred to as such in the past, there has been a very definite trend towards its use since 1999. It’s another way for the Scots to do things differently and this is one case in which royal officials have been happy to go along with them. It is therefore now routinely used as his title for official purposes in Scotland, including in the Court Circular. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/6 "2011-06-01T16:14:17Z")
Prince Charles has different coats of arms for his various titles, as well: [Charles III - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles,_prince_of_wales#Arms) Even the Queen has different arms for use in Scotland: [Coat of arms of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_coat_of_arms_of_the_United_Kingdom) ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/7 "2011-06-01T16:32:51Z")
Thanks everyone. I assumed (as a naive American) that your highest title was the one you used, regardless of other lesser titles you may also have, and that since Prince of Wales (and heir to the throne) seemed like the highest title he had, that was the title he would use regardless of where he happened to be in the realm. I now know better… ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/8 "2011-06-01T16:45:54Z")
It’s more an issue of manners. Usage of the highest local title is just giving a nod to the importance of Scotland or wherever he happens to be, or to be referred to. Much of this is linked to the fact that the UK is a Union of separate kingdoms - England, Scotland and Northern Ireland - plus the Principality of Wales. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/9 "2011-06-01T17:25:22Z")
> [@notquitekarpov](#): > > It’s more an issue of manners. Usage of the highest local title is just giving a nod to the importance of Scotland or wherever he happens to be, or to be referred to. > > Much of this is linked to the fact that the UK is a Union of separate kingdoms - England, Scotland and Northern Ireland - plus the Principality of Wales. Was there a King of Northern Ireland at one point in time? ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/10 "2011-06-01T17:44:10Z")
No. There was a Kingdom of Ireland, and following the independence of the Irish Republic the rump is Northern Ireland. Ireland has it own crown and everything, it is just our Queen is reduced to being monarch of only Northern Ireland due to a little local misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/11 "2011-06-01T21:40:07Z")
So what is Prince Charles’ locally appropriate title when he is in Northern Ireland? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/12 "2011-06-01T21:49:11Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > So what is Prince Charles’ locally appropriate title when he is in Northern Ireland? Strictly, he’s Baron Carrickfergus. However, if he visits NI, they’ll refer to him as the Prince of Wales - with maybe a couple of side references to the local title to make the folks in Carrickfergus happy. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/13 "2011-06-01T21:54:47Z")
It’s Prince William who’s Baron Carrickfergus. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/14 "2011-06-01T21:59:12Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > It’s Prince William who’s Baron Carrickfergus. Of course you’re right. My brain lost one of its cogs. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-charles-is-the-duke-of-rothesay-in-scotland/583956/15 "2011-06-02T02:08:42Z")
Unlike his son, Charles doesn’t appear to have a Northern Irish title: [http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/personalprofiles/theprinceofwales/abouttheprince/titles/](http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/personalprofiles/theprinceofwales/abouttheprince/titles/)