# Prince: I find him to be a problematic artist **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 1, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571 "2018-04-01T04:38:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/41 "2018-04-02T17:18:13Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Is it understandable that someone who places, or otherwise inserts, sexuality into every note, or beat, might not be all that interesting as a musician? Sure. They may not be all that interesting to \*you \*and / or to the OP. Which is totally fine, but not “problematic.” Prince is established as a widely, deeply respected musician. Anyone is welcome to not like him or find his sexuality to overt or whatever, but at least start from a place that acknowledges his rep. I am trying to imagine someone deciding they don’t like, say, The Beatles or Stones or The Who. Would they say “you know, I find The Beatles to be problematic” or would they simply say “yeah, I get that they are popular, but I don’t dig them.” It sounds weird there and it sounds weird here, with regards to Prince. The OP hasn’t explained “problematic” - only that they aren’t big Prince fans. Got it - noted. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/42 "2018-04-02T17:28:14Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > You mean we thought we didn’t like his songs, when actually he was sexy to you? Whoa yeah, he was sexy to me. Loved most of his music too. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/43 "2018-04-02T17:29:02Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Lol, just noticed this post. You are seriously questioning Prince’s influence because he didn’t invent funk. That is hilarious. As it happens, he got a lot of kudos for producing funk without the usually obligatory bass. Compared to Hendrix? Prince is a babe in the woods. And that’s his big innovation? Less bass? Please. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/44 "2018-04-02T17:30:24Z")
I love some of Prince’s music. The rest is meh or just doesn’t sound very good to me. Live he seems fantastic, especially when he’s on the guitar. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/45 "2018-04-02T17:51:10Z")
> [@HelenTroy](#): > > That was the part that had me LOLOLOLOLO. Prince was sex personified and did it outside of the “normal” perimeters. I can’t take any part of this discussion seriously if it gets even that part so very wrong. > > This board skews very old, white, and male. Unfortunately, that means the perspective on pop culture is very narrow. I mean, some of y’all often claim not to know 90% of what’s currently on the radio, so how do you know what the lasting influence is? Even a comment above that Prince’s earlier works had no staying power? That’s doesn’t ring true for me or most who spend way more money on R&B/Soul/HipHop than Rush. I have to LOL at anyone who critiques the Prince’s entire body of work by citing tracks from “Purple Rain.” By even mentioning “Darling Nikki”, the OP is practically screaming “I only have a supercial understanding of the subject matter I am pontificating about. Please roll your eyes at me.” Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/46 "2018-04-02T18:01:17Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > It’s hard to assert an “objectivity over bias” argument when the topic is how “sexual” something is. The subject is subjectivity itself. > > Is it understandable that someone who places, or otherwise inserts, sexuality into every note, or beat, might not be all that interesting as a musician? Only for you. Sexuality is emotion and best expressed through the language of music. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/47 "2018-04-02T18:03:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Compared to Hendrix? Prince is a babe in the woods. > > And that’s his big innovation? Less bass? Please. Hendrix is virtually unknown to under 40s. Not so Prince. And Princes range of music was far greater than Hendrix. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/48 "2018-04-02T18:05:12Z")
Prince was an artist I admired more than liked. I respected him for not only being able to do his own thing musically without caving in to executive interference but also be extremely successful for a long time. Yet, despite this, I only have a few of this songs in my MP3 collection. Maybe he’s one of those artists I’ll eventually binge on. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/49 "2018-04-02T18:18:20Z")
I think Prince’s skills and positive attributes were undeniable. He had guitar chops. He could sing. He had good looks, at least in many people’s opinions. He was intelligent. He had songwriting skill. It’s futile to argue against any of that, because positive examples of all of them are easy to find. But to me, it seemed like all his positives and all his skills didn’t have a convincing point of view behind them. As if (maybe in an effort to avoid being pigeonholed) he was avoiding commitment. As if he put on all the ambiguity stuff simply to cover up the fact that none of what he was doing reflected his real self. As if Prince never meant any of it. Love Jimi Hendrix or not, but he was who he was. Same for lots of others. Did Prince be who he was? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/50 "2018-04-02T18:32:33Z")
The strangest part of all this is that the whole “I don’t hear his influence today” quote in the OP (another reason that the article is nuts). Janelle Monae has already been referenced, but does anyone think that D’Angelo, Frank Ocean, The Weeknd (who is everywhere these days), Bruno Mars (same), Pharrell Williams, or Miguel would exist without Prince? Not to mention the massive influence he’s had on Beyonce and Justin Timberlake’s work as well. You can only really avoid Prince’s influence in music today if you aren’t paying attention (or rather, if you are only paying attention to other forms of music). ---
**Author:** ![Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enter_the_Flagon)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/51 "2018-04-02T18:36:56Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Love Jimi Hendrix or not, but he was who he was. Same for lots of others. Did Prince be who he was? It’s probably impossible for anyone here to answer this question. What does seem clear is the implication that Prince could be criticized for an attribute for which David Bowie is lauded. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/52 "2018-04-02T19:28:35Z")
> [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](#): > > It’s probably impossible for anyone here to answer this question. What does seem clear is the implication that Prince could be criticized for an attribute for which David Bowie is lauded. That _bastard!_ ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/53 "2018-04-02T20:07:40Z")
This whole thread is a big WTF. “Problematic”? Is it “problematic” if I don’t like strawberry ice cream and prefer chocolate instead? “Problematic” means there is a moral conflict in liking certain artist because of other things they do. Kevin Spacey is problematic, Chris Brown is problematic. Based on the title, I expected some concerns about encouraging fentanyl use or something mildly odd, not the ridiculously odd argument that you don’t like his music. You liking or not liking his music is really not problematic for anyone but you, and even that I’m having trouble understanding the “problem”. Then the arguments that he didn’t have much influence. The ridiculousness of this claim has been pointed out enough. He wasn’t sexy enough (except for all the songs where he was sexy). And he was too sexy, just a one-note sex musician. And finally, he showed too much breadth in his music. By not focusing on a single style like Hendrix, he proved himself to be…to be honest, I still can’t even understand this complaint enough to ridicule it properly. WTF. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/54 "2018-04-02T20:14:42Z")
> [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](#): > > It’s probably impossible for anyone here to answer this question. What does seem clear is the implication that Prince could be criticized for an attribute for which David Bowie is lauded. Preach. Different people saw different things when they looked at Prince. And he was not afraid to flip things around on everyone and laugh at their misconceptions. Are we supposed to see this as a flaw? Cuz I think it is awesome. Maybe Prince knew exactly who he was, and it’s everyone else who is confused. That is not a bug. That is a feature! People who aren’t the least bit mysterious are boring. Or maybe the guy did not know exactly who he was. His struggle with identity (“Are you black or white? Or you straight or gay?”) resonated with millions of people for a reason. None of us know exactly who we are. Many of us like trying out different styles and ways of being. Effective artists are mirrors of the human condition. If Prince was able to attract the following he had while constantly evolving and trying new things, then I think it is safe to say that his fans at least admired him for his flexibility. It amazes me that anyone would find this problematic. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/55 "2018-04-02T21:09:21Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Hendrix is virtually unknown to under 40s. . . . So probably are Django Reinhardt, Charlie Christian, Kenny Burrell, Scotty Moore, Cliff Gallup, James Burton, Mickey Baker, Lowman Pauling… etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/56 "2018-04-02T21:23:44Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > The strangest part of all this is that the whole “I don’t hear his influence today” quote in the OP (another reason that the article is nuts). Janelle Monae has already been referenced, but does anyone think that D’Angelo, Frank Ocean, The Weeknd (who is everywhere these days), Bruno Mars (same), Pharrell Williams, or Miguel would exist without Prince? Not to mention the massive influence he’s had on Beyonce and Justin Timberlake’s work as well. > > You can only really avoid Prince’s influence in music today if you aren’t paying attention (or rather, if you are only paying attention to other forms of music). If it’s in dance or hip hop fine, but that means that his influence might be in black music more than others. I am not going to keep up with urban, dance, or pop unless I find they offer melodies and harmonies that are worth the effort. Who has that kind of time? If Pharrel makes a tune I need to hear I’ll find out somehow. They need to get to me with a popular tune that I can hear. Prince needed to do that. I think he was so fluid and facile as a song writer that he lost touch with things that I really need in music. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/57 "2018-04-02T21:39:58Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Sure. They may not be all that interesting to \*you \*and / or to the OP. Which is totally fine, but not “problematic.” > > Prince is established as a widely, deeply respected musician. Anyone is welcome to not like him or find his sexuality to overt or whatever, but at least start from a place that acknowledges his rep. > > I am trying to imagine someone deciding they don’t like, say, The Beatles or Stones or The Who. Would they say “you know, I find The Beatles to be problematic” or would they simply say “yeah, I get that they are popular, but I don’t dig them.” > > It sounds weird there and it sounds weird here, with regards to Prince. > > The OP hasn’t explained “problematic” - only that they aren’t big Prince fans. Got it - noted. I think he finds the popularity of Prince to be odd considering the music. Maybe that’s not problematic. I get that he is big and a musical obsessive. He is sexy and can play guitar with great facility. I don’t know about the “feel” or the tunes though. These are more problematic. His “rep” is how he is seen by people, but if I think the music doesn’t live up to this, like with peers, then this might be problematic too. I think I could have a conversation that centered around the “problematic” beatles or stones. Esp the stones: Plenty of material for discussion. Thats what’s fun to me. I would be passionate no doubt. We know Prince has been a hot button here before. So maybe the OP is saying that it is problematic because there is so much pushback on Prince criticism, that there is a taboo about it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/58 "2018-04-03T00:05:20Z")
Let’s see if they (or you) have heard of any of these guys influenced by Jimi Hendrix: Eric Clapton Stevie Ray Vaughan Slash John Frusciante Steve Vai Eddie Van Halen Lenny Kravitz Joe Satriani Eddie Hazel Yngwe Malmsteen Prince\* (knew ya’d like that one) John Mayer Billy Gibbons Robin Trower Randy California K.K. Downing Eric Johnson Zakk Wylde Ritchie Blackmore ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/59 "2018-04-03T00:36:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Let’s see if they (or you) have heard of any of these guys influenced by Jimi Hendrix: > > Eric Clapton > Stevie Ray Vaughan > Slash > John Frusciante > Steve Vai > Eddie Van Halen > Lenny Kravitz > Joe Satriani > Eddie Hazel > Yngwe Malmsteen > Prince\* (knew ya’d like that one) > John Mayer > Billy Gibbons > Robin Trower > Randy California > K.K. Downing > Eric Johnson > Zakk Wylde > Ritchie Blackmore I am not sure what your point is. Any time you want to discuss guitar technique, cool. Prince has it. **drad** , no. Some folks here are saying they don’t equate his music with his rep. Many, many other people absolutely equate his music with his rep. That is _not_ problematic. That is preference. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/60 "2018-04-03T00:38:31Z")
I love some of Prince’s music, hate some of his other music (“Diamonds and Pearls” is like nails on a chalkboard for me) and that doesn’t strike me as problematic in the slightest. I, too, expected some sort of “how do we separate the art from the artist?” conversation, not an “if I don’t like something, that’s a problem for everyone else” conversation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571.md?page=4)