# Prince: I find him to be a problematic artist **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 1, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571 "2018-04-01T04:38:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/81 "2018-04-03T01:37:26Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Well, the Who flat out suck, I _will_ denigrate them with confidence, Well, that them there is crazy talk, and I’m not even a huge fan of the Who. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/82 "2018-04-03T01:40:47Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I would recommend some “lesser known” albums to you if I thought it would be worthwhile. I would say give _Dirty Mind_ a spin. If you’re (that is, the OP, not you **monstro** ) not into the R&B stuff, and want to hear a bit more rock and punkiness to his work, that’s your record. It’ll probably sound a lot different than what you’re expecting if all you know is PR and 1999. “When You Were Mine” is just a great straight-ahead pop song through-and-through, but then you also get the trademark Prince dirtiness with songs like “Head” and “Sister.” I just _love_ that album. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/83 "2018-04-03T01:42:04Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I’m sure you will find many posts worthy of your intellect! ‘kay. I’m not worried about my intellect. I’m worried about your taste. \*\*Puly \*\*, I banged my head to Dirty Mind for months. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/84 "2018-04-03T01:43:03Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I would recommend some “lesser known” albums to you if I thought it would be worthwhile. > > … > > I love Purple Rain, but I don’t consider it his best work. I don’t think most Prince fans do. Well, see, this would be helpful: tell me what your framework for understanding Prince is and how that leads one to greater enjoyment. If I went into a thread to defend a favorite artist, that’s the approach I would take. I would definitely find your opinion of interest. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/85 "2018-04-03T01:45:03Z")
[Here’s "When You Were Mine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4drKlxfgpdw). Posted a couple days ago, so I expect it to be down soon. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/86 "2018-04-03T01:45:21Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > ‘kay. I’m not worried about my intellect. I’m worried about your taste. Yeah, you seem to be sticking around to worry even more! ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/87 "2018-04-03T01:46:29Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I would say give _Dirty Mind_ a spin. If you’re (that is, the OP, not you **monstro** ) not into the R&B stuff, and want to hear a bit more rock and punkiness to his work, that’s your record. It’ll probably sound a lot different than what you’re expecting if all you know is PR and 1999. “When You Were Mine” is just a great straight-ahead pop song through-and-through, but then you also get the trademark Prince dirtiness with songs like “Head” and “Sister.” I just _love_ that album. Thanks! I will indeed listen to it. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/88 "2018-04-03T01:46:49Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I know. It is problematic. > [@wonky](#): > > I can’t even imagine trying to “sell” you on any artist. Your POV strikes me as very interested in making assertions and making claims about other people’s experiences than it is about a genuine openness to exploring an artist. > > That’s okay. I’ll just label it problematic and all will be clear. Ya’ll are using “problematic” as a euphemism for “full of shit”, right? Cuz I’m ready to make this a thing. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/89 "2018-04-03T01:48:59Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I would say give _Dirty Mind_ a spin. If you’re (that is, the OP, not you **monstro** ) not into the R&B stuff, and want to hear a bit more rock and punkiness to his work, that’s your record. It’ll probably sound a lot different than what you’re expecting if all you know is PR and 1999. “When You Were Mine” is just a great straight-ahead pop song through-and-through, but then you also get the trademark Prince dirtiness with songs like “Head” and “Sister.” I just _love_ that album. I’m a fan of “Uptown”. It’s so optimistic and happy. White, Black, Puerto Rican, everybody just a-freakin’. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/90 "2018-04-03T01:49:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > [Here’s "When You Were Mine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4drKlxfgpdw). Posted a couple days ago, so I expect it to be down soon. This is indeed a good song. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/91 "2018-04-03T01:50:01Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Thanks! I will indeed listen to it. And here’s a clip of [“Sister”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D82RBCo_hvg). It’s only a 20-second or so snippet, but it’s got more of that kind of punk or post-punk feel. IIRC, he played all the instruments on this album himself. My only complaint is that I wish the vocals were slightly higher in the mix on most of the songs on this album. They’re a little buried for my tastes. But nice stuff. [And here’s the opening track, “Dirty Mind”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3GPPnVz1fw). It’s much more of a disco type of jam, but I love it, too. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/92 "2018-04-03T01:52:10Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > This is indeed a good song. There’s a few more pop interpretations of it. Cyndi Lauper [has a very New Wavy one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AK27OjO7nY), and Mitch Ryder [has a fun Americana rock cover](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqJPpSo1Dm8), too. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/93 "2018-04-03T02:06:36Z")
Also, IIRC, those _Dirty Mind_ recordings were intended to be a demo, but got released as the final album for … reasons I don’t remember. Maybe for their raw sound? At any rate, that was his breakthrough album, critically. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/94 "2018-04-03T02:26:43Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > And I think this is an example of how Prince’s sex thing doesn’t work (in the artistic sense. If women dug it, then cool, that helped him make money. I really don’t think it appealed to straight guys, which is a fair point I think on the part of the writer I quoted). I guess it would seem fair to someone who shares Delingpole’s contempt for women’s judgment. I’m not even a Prince fan, but I find it “problematic” that you and Delingpole both consider men’s opinions about art to be so much more important than women’s. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/95 "2018-04-03T02:39:25Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I guess it would seem fair to someone who shares Delingpole’s contempt for women’s judgment. I’m not even a Prince fan, but I find it “problematic” that you and Delingpole both consider men’s opinions about art to be so much more important than women’s. See, shit like this makes it kinda pointless to post on the Dope unless one is really careful about how one posts. Personally, I never drop into a thread to attack someone because they have an opinion I don’t agree with. You’re not even a Prince fan, presumably not interested in this topic then, but you just had to thread-shit a bit. Wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/96 "2018-04-03T02:44:01Z")
Sorry man, I would love to help you but this thread really does read like, “I, a straight white man, don’t care for Prince. Why is he still so popular?!” ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/97 "2018-04-03T02:45:54Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Sorry man, I would love to help you but this thread really does read like, “I, a straight white man, don’t care for Prince. Why is he still so popular?!” I guess we just Pit people in any forum on the Dope these days. Makes posting a lot of fun. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/98 "2018-04-03T03:08:34Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Well, see, this would be helpful: tell me what your framework for understanding Prince is and how that leads one to greater enjoyment. If I went into a thread to defend a favorite artist, that’s the approach I would take. > > I would definitely find your opinion of interest. I don’t have a “framework”. I just like what I like. And I wouldn’t even pretend to understand Prince. I don’t have to understand the dude to enjoy his music. Music is an emotional experience for me, not a (pseudo or otherwise) intellectual one. “Parade” is one of my favorite albums because it takes me back to my childhood (specifically the third grade) and my college years (when my sister and I listened to it almost continuously). My favorite tracks from this album are “Mountains”, “Girls and Boys”, and “Anotherloverholenyohead”. The last one is in my top five Prince songs ever. If I had to name a perfect song, it would be that one. “Around the World in a Day” has the gems “The Ladder” and “Pop Life”. “Sign o’ the Times.” Just about every track is awesome, but I really love “Housequake” (it features his Camille persona, who cracks me up), “Starfish and Coffee” (for its craziness), and “The Cross” (one of the few songs that makes me wish I was still a Christian). Off the top of my head, here are some other songs that I really enjoy: “Bambi” “Dolphins” “Friend, Lover, Sister Mother/Wife” “Morning Paper” “Erotic City” “Money Don’t Matter Tonight” “My Name is Prince” “Let’s Work” “The Love We Make” “The Holy River” ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/99 "2018-04-03T03:17:16Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > . . . Well, the Who flat out suck . . . I would qualify that statement by saying, the Who flat out sucked after their first three albums (i.e., for the past 49 years or so). ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571/100 "2018-04-03T03:28:45Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > I would qualify that statement by saying, the Who flat out sucked after their first three albums (i.e., for the past 49 years or so). Yeah, I can see that. I don’t adore their early material, but some of it is tolerable. “Substitute” is a pretty good song. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-i-find-him-to-be-a-problematic-artist/811571.md?page=6)