# Prince Philip has died **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 9, 2021, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670 "2021-04-09T11:08:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/221 "2021-04-19T17:59:02Z")
Also, sorry the Queen’s lady-in-waiting (with whom she rode in the limousine) didn’t sit with her during the service to provide company and some measure of comfort. She looked so lonely and sad there all by herself. And odd to see the regimental colors actually resting on the ground as the hearse began its drive. I can understand lowering them, holding them horizontally or dipping them in salute or grief, but not having them touch the ground. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/222 "2021-04-19T18:21:50Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > And odd to see the regimental colors actually resting on the ground as the hearse began its drive. I can understand lowering them, holding them horizontally or dipping them in salute or grief, but not having them touch the ground. You see that at the Trooping the Colour ceremony as well, during the final Royal Salute. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/223 "2021-04-19T18:44:06Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > And odd to see the regimental colors actually resting on the ground as the hearse began its drive. I can understand lowering them, holding them horizontally or dipping them in salute or grief, but not having them touch the ground. I was wondering about that as well. Seemed to be a violation of protocol. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/224 "2021-04-19T19:06:09Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Also, sorry the Queen’s lady-in-waiting (with whom she rode in the limousine) didn’t sit with her during the service to provide company and some measure of comfort. She looked so lonely and sad there all by herself. That would have counted to the 30 person limit, though, so would have meant one of Philip’s personal invitees would be excluded. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/225 "2021-04-19T19:08:35Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I was wondering about that as well. Seemed to be a violation of protocol. I think we can be pretty dadgummed sure NO protocol was violated at any time during the proceedings. 🤨 However it looked. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/226 "2021-04-19T19:39:09Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > > > And odd to see the regimental colors actually resting on the ground as the hearse began its drive. I can understand lowering them, holding them horizontally or dipping them in salute or grief, but not having them touch the ground. > > You see that at the Trooping the Colour ceremony as well, during the final Royal Salute. Hmm. That’s Just Not Done on this side of the pond. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/227 "2021-04-19T20:03:14Z")
Hats off to Heinlein, but John Varley’s is better (from “Tango Charlie and Foxtrot Romeo”): _Lord guard and guide all those who fly Through Thy great void above the sky. Be with them all on ev’ry flight, In radiant day or darkest night. Oh, hear our prayer, extend Thy grace To those in peril deep in space._ ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/228 "2021-04-19T20:10:26Z")
In addition to the space versions I have a dim recollection of an aviation version, but I can’t seem to find the lyrics. Does that ring a bell for anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/229 "2021-04-19T20:33:51Z")
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Father,_Strong_to_Save) quotes a version from the Episcopal Church which has an aviation verse: > _O Spirit, whom the Father sent > To spread abroad the firmament; > O Wind of heaven, by thy might > Save all who dare the eagle’s flight, > And keep them by thy watchful care > From every peril in the air._ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/230 "2021-04-20T03:41:16Z")
> [@Briny\_Deep](#): > > Hats off to Heinlein, but John Varley’s is better (from “Tango Charlie and Foxtrot Romeo”): > > _Lord guard and guide all those who fly > Through Thy great void above the sky. > Be with them all on ev’ry flight, > In radiant day or darkest night. > Oh, hear our prayer, extend Thy grace > To those in peril deep in space._ Very nice, but I think I prefer Heinlein’s. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/231 "2021-04-20T06:30:54Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > they had the konakion for the dead. kon_ **t** _akion (in case anyone wanted to look it up) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/232 "2021-04-20T08:43:34Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > I was wondering if they would have something from the Orthodox Church at the funeral. Sure enough they had the kontakion for the dead. It’s part of ‘Common Worship: prayers and services for the Church of England’, and “Hymns Ancient and Modern”. When the commentator said it was from the Orthodox Church I was expecting Church Greek or Church Russian rather than the standard English service. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/233 "2021-04-20T09:48:54Z")
The Kontakion chanting is very ancient, though, dating back to Byzantium. They have simply put English words to it, and arranged it for an SATB choir. It would have been better in Greek, and all the singing would have been better with a full choir. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/234 "2021-04-20T10:18:37Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Hmm. That’s Just Not Done on this side of the pond. That’s because you have a strange reverence for flags - we have a Queen, instead. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/235 "2021-04-20T11:57:49Z")
> “The lowering of flags to the ground in salute goes back to at least the late 16th century, and used to be called “vailing”. On the march, the flag is lowered perpendicular to the body of the ensign (flag bearer). Standing troops lower their flag so that the pike touches the ground, and this is usually done with a flourish so that the flag drapes flat on the ground. The only modern concession the British have made is for the ensign to loosely roll the flag on the pike if the ground is wet in order to minimise soiling.” This is the normal practice around the world. The US is an exception, possibly the only one. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/236 "2021-04-20T13:31:15Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > That’s because you have a strange reverence for flags - we have a Queen, instead. That’s true for a relative comparison of the two general publics, but I’m pretty sure the reverence for particular flags is _much_ greater in the British military tradition. Any flag paraded in a military ceremony in the USA is just a stock item (AFAIK). It’s not specially designed and embroidered, consecrated, handed over by a VIP in a big ceremony, held for years by a military unit as its very special important object to be guarded and revered, or laid up in a church to be adored forever when it’s retired. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/237 "2021-04-20T13:59:40Z")
I suppose the banners on the ground could symbolize whatever it represents literally prostrating face-to-ground, as once people would to royalty? In the U.S. practice, the unit standard dips in salute but still must not touch the ground. Meanwhile the national flag never dips, for anyone or anything, anywhere, not even in someone else’s country. ---
**Author:** ![peedin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peedin/32/14095_2.png) [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/238 "2021-04-20T14:11:37Z")
I watched the ceremony up until the Queen entered the chapel, then I started sobbing and turned it off. (BTW, I’m American). I did not notice the Union Jack on Phillip’s coffin. Did I miss it, or was it not there? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/239 "2021-04-20T14:38:02Z")
As a royal, he has his own flag/standard, and that was draped on the coffin. Note the the Union Jack flies over Buckingham Palace - _except_ when the Queen is in residence. Then her [royal standard](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Buckingham_Palace_Royal_Standard_Flag.jpg) flies. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670/240 "2021-04-20T14:42:40Z")
Every military has its traditions - flags obviously date from a time when they were literally used to lead regiments into battle, so they hold a lot of significance. Flags are designed to represent regiments or even to commemorate individual battles. I was referring to the reverence that the US has for the stars and stripes - it seems, from a distance, that it stands in for a national figurehead, hence the concept that the national flag never dips. I was referring to the fact that for us, that’s the Queen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-has-died/939670.md?page=13)