# Prince Philip - was that necessary, Cecil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 7, 2000, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111 "2000-11-07T14:19:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whammo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8dc957/32.png) [@Whammo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whammo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2000, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/41 "2000-12-27T06:01:16Z")
Everybody bitches that Cece isn’t as “edgy” as he used to be but then when he is look what he has to deal with. I am not gay… but I thought it was funny. You might not be fat like me but if you read a joke about fat people in a column by him you would probably laugh. I might laugh too… or feel bad… I don’t know… But I wouldn’t bitch about it. You know how Cecil is supposed to be and what makes him interesting in the first place. Deal. Fucking whiners. ---
**Author:** ![Louie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@Louie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Louie)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2000, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/42 "2000-12-27T08:55:36Z")
Still no explaination from Eve. How strange… ---
**Author:** ![Philo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@Philo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2000, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/43 "2000-12-27T11:45:26Z")
Eve, you don’t read the column because of Unca cece’s insensitivity to gay issues? I am aghast. I’m a recovering commie, still leaning to the left, but I still manage to read every crazy right wing magazine I run across. Yes, even when they are filled with hate filled diatribes against me and my pinko ilk. Why? They might, just might, have a valid point to make about something that doesn’t relate to our primary difference. Do I agree in their assessment of the last election? Nah… I don’t agree with them in most points. But I won’t close myself off if they manage to get lucky and raise a valid point in some other area. I have a thick enough skin that I can absorb a lot of venom if it will earn me a single interesting idea. I feel that your position is the same as a creationist who will listen to nothing but scripture, on the grounds that scientific arguments are hateful to your chosen lifestyle. For Esprix, your comments are above objective reproach. I think that you have let your sensitivity to gay issues hamstring your sense of humor, but it’s not for me to say really. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/44 "2001-01-04T05:39:14Z")
Isn’t the term “queen” more specific than simply “gay”? Doesn’t it refer to someone who intentionally exhibits gay stereotypes? That is my impression, correct me if I’m wrong. Based on that understanding, I don’t see how implying that queens lisp is offensive. They do, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/45 "2001-01-04T21:56:18Z")
Actually, the ones I know (and I know quite a few) don’t lisp. However, most of the gays I know are either professional actors or professional opera singers, who would have obvious reason to avoid anything suggestive of a speech defect. And, of course, many gays who _do_ indulge in “camping it up” regard it as a strictly in-community thing, like blacks calling each other “nigger”, not to be indulged in by outsiders. Humans are just weird, sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/46 "2001-01-04T22:18:17Z")
The Ryan said: > [@](#): > > I don’t see how implying that queens lisp is offensive. They do, don’t they? No, they don’t. [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a950526.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a950526.html) > [@](#): > > We did get some substantive responses by e-mail, to the effect that while lisping was a baseless stereotype perpetuated by clueless straights (typical joke: “Which way to the Staten Island ferry?” “Thpeaking”), certain speech mannerisms were commonly found among gays. One fellow, a member of a gay chorus, wrote: “I always thought the most identifiable stereotypically gay speech mannerism wath not a lithp, but rather an overly ssssssibilant esssssss sssssound, which is the bane of gay men’s chorus conductors everywhere.” In other words, no lisp. Other speech mannerisms, but not a **lisp**. But I do get your point about “queen” refering to gays that camp it up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2001, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/47 "2001-01-08T23:16:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Irishman \* > But I do get your point about “queen” refering to gays that camp it up. Then why did you consider an article regarding gays to be relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2001, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/48 "2001-01-09T00:28:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > Then why did you consider an article regarding gays to be relevant? Because you were asking whether or not “queens” lisp, and that’s what the article was about. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2001, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/49 "2001-01-09T01:01:47Z")
For what it’s worth, 70 years ago, it was _Jews_ who stereotypicaly lisped, at least in England. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/50 "2001-01-10T08:02:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gadarene \* > Because you were asking whether or not “queens” lisp, and that’s what the article was about. \*\* I didn’t see the word “queen” anywhere in the article. Did you? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/51 "2001-01-10T16:48:16Z")
The Ryan posted: > [@](#): > > Originally posted by Irishman > \*But I do get your point about “queen” refering to gays that camp it up. \* > > Then why did you consider an article regarding gays to be relevant? I said I **do** get your point. Yes, “queen” is an appellation given to homosexuals. Thus an article about gays is relevant to a discussion of “queens” referring to gays. **MY** point had nothing to do with using the word “queen” to refer to gays. My point was that gays do NOT lisp. Okay, there may be a gay guy who lisps out there, but it is not a lisp that is the distinctive characteristic of gay “camping it up” behavior, acting fey. That behavior includes a particular nasal whine, the extended (sibilant) “sss” sounds, and certain mannerisms. That was why I referenced the article by Cecil that explained that very point. So your question about gays and lisping was “They do, don’t they?” and my response was “No, they don’t.” Now do you follow the conversation? The other part of your question (which was actually your point) was why would a gay find a reference to fey behavior related to a gay labeled as a “queen” offensive. That I don’t know. From the way I read Esprix’s comment, it wasn’t that he was offended by labeling a gay a “queen”, it was that the pun was tacky and too obvious to be funny. That is perhaps a matter of taste. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/52 "2001-01-10T22:23:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Irishman \* > So your question about gays and lisping was “They do, don’t they?” and my response was “No, they don’t.” The fact that you have paraphrased my question about queens into a question about gays suggests that you haven’t quite grasped my point regarding the difference between the terms “gay” and “queen”. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/53 "2001-01-11T01:04:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Irishman** _ > > From the way I read Esprix’s comment, it wasn’t that he was offended by labeling a gay a “queen”, it was that the pun was tacky and too obvious to be funny. That is perhaps a matter of taste. Tacky and uncalled for, IMHO, making it wildly unfunny and forced. This is, as you say, a matter of opinion - evidently some people got some real yuk-yuks out of it. :rolleyes: Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111/54 "2001-01-11T16:04:32Z")
The Ryan, I got your point. Your point was that not all gays are queens, just some gays who exhibit certain characteristics. That’s why I said “But I do get your point about “queen” refering to gays **that camp it up**.” “Camp it up” meaning exhibit certain characteristics such as speaking style, mannerisms, style of clothing, etc. But my point was that those characteristics do not include a **lisp** , which you seemed to think they do. I did not disagree with your claim that not all gays are queens. I just pointed out that lisping is not one of the characteristics, and showed Cecil’s column on that topic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-philip-was-that-necessary-cecil/40111.md?page=2)