# Prince, you are the KING of the goat-felchers! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050 "2013-07-20T18:40:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/81 "2013-07-21T17:19:05Z")
So you’re mad that you stole someone’s music, made your own video and were told to take it down? Cry me a river, seriously. When I make videos for my dive trips, I find an artist that I get PERMISSION from and use/credit THEIR music. School of Rock? WTF is that crap? Ask permission, don’t bitch later when you get slapped for stealing. Are people really this stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/82 "2013-07-21T17:28:58Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Lucky for him! Charlie Murphy says that cat can ball! Woulda kicked his ass! I’ve heard that - the high heels were not true, but the basketball skills were. > [@Chimera](#): > > \ > Always used to love reading about how upset people got that Prince didn’t take the stage at his 9pm concert until 3am… I’m not sure how to read this - I too would be upset if a band I paid to see showed up six hours late. 😕 > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Seems to me that there’s a lot of dick-sucking junior mods for the RIAA posting here\ I’m no fan of the modern version of copyright laws, but in this case, it sounds to me like no matter how stupid the laws are, Prince is playing within the framework of US copyright law at the moment, and he is not at fault for that. Should the copyright laws be changed? Hell yes. They aren’t an accurate reflection of the world we actually live in, and they seem to exist just to benefit people who aren’t actually involved in the creation of music a whole lot more than they benefit actual artists. That’s really a whole 'nother discussion, though. > [@](#): > > Gaffa’s 100% right in this, he’s half owner of the video. What people don’t seem to get is that this isn’t like stealing Prince’s CD’s or copying his tracks and selling them. The video is about more than just the music, its about the performance. Prince did not perform in any of the videos in Gaffa’s channel and he should not get to dictate how something he only partly owns gets to be used, essentially for free. \ But if Prince hadn’t written that particular music, they would have been standing up there picking their noses. It’s not like he wasn’t involved at _any_ point. If you don’t like how Prince reacts to videos of his music being performed, don’t perform his music. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/83 "2013-07-21T17:38:14Z")
> [@BoBettie](#): > > So you’re mad that you stole someone’s music, made your own video and were told to take it down? Cry me a river, seriously. When I make videos for my dive trips, I find an artist that I get PERMISSION from and use/credit THEIR music. School of Rock? WTF is that crap? Ask permission, don’t bitch later when you get slapped for stealing. Are people really this stupid? To be fair, SoR had permission to cover the songs and paid for the rights. It’s the uploading to YouTube that’s being blocked. I don’t think the OP is stealing anything. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/84 "2013-07-21T17:47:32Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > To be fair, SoR had permission to cover the songs and paid for the rights. It’s the uploading to YouTube that’s being blocked. I don’t think the OP is stealing anything. What he is stealing is the right to control distribution of the work. Recording, posting said recordings, and selling said recordings are a different bundle of rights not included in the performance license. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/85 "2013-07-21T19:00:02Z")
At this point, I’m wondering if gaffa was even contracted by School of Rock or if he just makes these videos and uploads them on his own initiative. You’d think the lawyers for SoR would have worked out payments for internet videos while they were doing the other music licenses. ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/86 "2013-07-21T20:03:15Z")
Most people dislike the copyright regime, some people dislike copyright altogether, and some people dislike Prince. Most people like Youtube and talented children. This thread should have been a slam dunk. **gaffa** ya blew it. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/87 "2013-07-21T21:34:22Z")
> [@drew870mitchell](#): > > **gaffa** ya blew it. Eh, I’d say he’s good enough for a poke. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/88 "2013-07-21T23:37:03Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > ETA: I really should make a “Hitler gets a DMCA notice for his cover of Purple Rain from Prince” video. Are you talking about the “artist formerly known as Godwin”? ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/89 "2013-07-22T06:04:53Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Re-read the OP. As I said, there are three levels of response, and Prince (I blame him - he is responsible for acts done in his name by his lawyers and he should fire them if they do otherwise) chose the MegaDick® response. Maybe he isn’t aware of the alternative responses. He may not be up to speed with Youtube and such like as he is now quite elderly. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/90 "2013-07-22T15:31:36Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Exactly. You pay the money to the [Harry Fox Agency](http://www.harryfox.com/), you record and release the song. The amount depends on the number of copies sold, with a special deal for releases of fewer than 1000 copies. OK, so can I ask why you haven’t done this? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/91 "2013-07-22T15:45:33Z")
Let’s see a music thread with \*\*Gaffa \*\*involved… how long until he posts about Kate Bush? > [@gaffa](#): > > Prince worked on a recording with Kate Bush. Read[this by posting by Michael Koppelman](http://gaffa.org/moments/2_2j.html) about working as his recording engineer: LOL, it’d be funny if it weren’t so predictably sad. > [@gaffa](#): > > Yeah…that’s not going to happen. In every case, when anyone asks permission for anything, the lawyers refuse. That is their job. And lawyers are, in general, lazy. If they wanted to work hard, they would have become doctors. [Oddly enough…](http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110405/03183813783/copyright-as-censorship-after-22-years-joyce-estate-finally-lets-kate-bush-use-lyrics-she-wanted.shtml) > [@](#): > > **Copyright As Censorship: After 22 Years, Joyce Estate Finally Lets Kate Bush Use Lyrics She Wanted** > It’s no secret that the James Joyce estate has been ridiculously overprotective when it comes to Joyce’s copyright. Of course, a lot of Joyce’s works are quickly approaching the public domain in various places (and some are already there), and so the estate may be losing its control. Still, it’s nice to see that the estate finally > “agreed” to one usage. Glyn Moody points us to the news that after an astounding 22 years of asking, singer Kate Bush has finally been allowed to use Molly Bloom’s famous soliloquy from Ulysses as lyrics for a song. She had first asked in 1989… and was denied. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/92 "2013-07-22T15:49:50Z")
As I said before, there is no question of this happening without Prince’s knowledge. He hates YouTube and has publicly lashed out against it as far back as 2007. He believes that YouTube should seek permission before allowing anything to be posted. He doesn’t like the fact that copyright holders have to police YouTube to find potential violations, but since that’s how things currently stand, he does so diligently and makes sure that a takedown notice is sent each and every time one of his songs appears in a video. And that is his right. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/93 "2013-07-22T15:57:37Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Neither did Gaffa If your reply is an attempt to equalize things for the purpose of supporting Prince, you’re mistaken. If we accept your premise, then both have equal rights to the video. Prince is ok with removing it and Gaffa should be equally empowered to put it back on Youtube or sell it as he wishes > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > :rolleyes: > Prince doesn’t need the help. Its not about whether or not he needs the help, its about whether or not it hurts him. It doesn’t, therefore Prince should not have the right to abuse our skewed copyright laws and have it removed > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > But if Prince hadn’t written that particular music, they would have been standing up there picking their noses. It’s not like he wasn’t involved at _any_ point. If you don’t like how Prince reacts to videos of his music being performed, don’t perform his music. And if the kids didn’t perform the music, then Prince’s song, in that particular instance, would be floating in the ether. The video is about more than just the song, its about the performance. Why should someone who only contributed it partly get full rights to it? He wrote the song, but someone else came up with the words before him, someone else created the instrument he used, why should the intellectual property begin and end with solely the creation of the song? And its absolutely honest and accurate to say Prince was not involved at ANY point. I’m referring to the video, which Prince did not direct, produce, shoot, perform, or edit. His only contribution was supplying the words and melody, and not even to Gaffa personally as part of the video, but to his audience decades ago. Its the same issue I have with game companies trying to crack down on used games. Once the game is sold, that should be it for the developer. They should not get any extra revenue from used game selling. Creating a game does not grant one lifetime ownership over every monetary exchange of that item’s entire existence. Are you similarly against private selling of private property? Someone’s table they’re selling from Craiglist once belonged to Ikea, why shouldn’t they get a cut? If I open a garage sale and sell an old TV, why shouldn’t Best Buy get a cut? More importantly, why would anyone believe that the original companies that owned the items should get to dictate how that table or TV can or cannot be sold? Its my property. This is the major issue with intellectual property that large companies like the RIAA uses to unfairly label people thieves. They got to sell the music once, from a CD or record, and that’s it. That’s all they get. Same with Ikea, same with Best Buy. Once I’ve bought the item, it is mine to do with what I want ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/94 "2013-07-22T17:26:17Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > \ His only contribution was supplying the words and melody, \ Again, I hate defending the asinine copyright laws we currently have, but this kind of made me snort out loud - for the songs in question, all Prince supplied was the words and the melody? That’s like saying for the dinner involved, all Prince supplied was the food. His contribution was of ultimate importance - without his words and melody, there wouldn’t have been a song. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/95 "2013-07-22T17:28:04Z")
I don’t like the copyright system in the US, but what exactly is the “right” that **gaffa** thinks he has that is being violated? Correct me if I’m wrong, but YouTube is still a commercial enterprise whose services are not an entitlement. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/96 "2013-07-22T17:54:31Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Again, I hate defending the asinine copyright laws we currently have, but this kind of made me snort out loud - for the songs in question, all Prince supplied was the words and the melody? That’s like saying for the dinner involved, all Prince supplied was the food. His contribution was of ultimate importance - without his words and melody, there wouldn’t have been a song. Yes, the obvious solution to this issue is for **gaffa** to write his own songs for the kids to perform. Then he can film the whole thing, and post it on Youtube, without having to worry about anyone else asserting their rights to the material. I’m assuming of course, that it would be no problem to whip up a few songs that would work; after all the contribution of words and music is a minor and relatively unimportant part of the whole production. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/97 "2013-07-22T18:22:32Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If your reply is an attempt to equalize things for the purpose of supporting Prince, you’re mistaken. If we accept your premise, then both have equal rights to the video. Prince is ok with removing it and Gaffa should be equally empowered to put it back on Youtube or sell it as he wishes Well, first of all, the law disagrees. Secondly, it’s not just between Gaffa and Prince. Gaffa is asking YouTube to host his video. They value Prince more than Gaffa (with good reason) and so they no longer care to host the offending material. If Gaffa wants to start his on video sharing site he’s more than welcome to do so, but it seems he doesn’t feel like doing all that hard work. > [@](#): > > Its not about whether or not he needs the help, its about whether or not it hurts him. It doesn’t, therefore Prince should not have the right to abuse our skewed copyright laws and have it removed Prince says it does. And he’s the one who gets to decide, being the artist and all. Not you. As someone else said, Gaffa is free to write new copyright-free songs for the kids to play. Or, hell, have the kids write their own songs if they are so talented. That’s what real rock stars do, after all. Since it’s such a tiny contribution to the process, I’m sure it will be no trouble at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/98 "2013-07-22T18:43:42Z")
> [@Tracijo67](#): > > Prince is himself probably not even aware of what happened. Do you actually think that he, himself, has the time or the inclination? I doubt his legal team — or whoever handles such matters on his behalf – even bothered to inform him of the action they’d taken. _De Mimimis non Curat Princeps_ Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/99 "2013-07-22T19:59:07Z")
Sorry it took me a while to get back to this. I was hired by the Kansas City School of Rock to videotape their performance at the Outfield Experience at the Kaufman Stadium before a Royals game, and that’s how I spent my Sunday. The part everyone seems to be deliberately avoiding is not whether or not Mr. Rogers has the right to assert his copyright. He does, which I mentioned in the OP. It’s that he chose the most obnoxious of the three options offered. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050/100 "2013-07-22T20:09:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > He doesn’t like the fact that copyright holders have to police YouTube to find potential violations, but since that’s how things currently stand, he does so diligently and makes sure that a takedown notice is sent each and every time one of his songs appears in a video. Actually, no. The YouTube content ID system automatically identifies most songs, asserts a level #1 copyright claim and automatically puts ads next to the video. There are a handful of artists, like Led Zeppelin, who use the automatic system to ID and mute. And in my experience he’s the ONLY one who actually issues Takedown notices. And it’s because he behaves like a 3 year old. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prince-you-are-the-king-of-the-goat-felchers/664050.md?page=6)