# Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away. What's next? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 11, 2008, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075 "2008-09-11T07:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/21 "2008-09-11T17:23:45Z")
> [@choie](#): > > And again, the love story between a ten year old and an apparently ageless river deity seems … well, unorthodox, shall we say? Is it a love story? Just because Haku originally appears in the form of a boy about the same age as Sen/Chihiro, I would not think there’s any kind of romantic love between them. And I’ll enthusiastically support the recommendation of **My Neighbor Totoro** – even though it centres on two young girls, it’s not just a kids’ movie. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/22 "2008-09-11T18:00:27Z")
I definitely don’t mind subtitles, so those recs are great. > [@Giles](#): > > Is it a love story? Just because Haku originally appears in the form of a boy about the same age as Sen/Chihiro, I would not think there’s any kind of romantic love between them. Well, maybe it’s the English translation, but several times others (such as the boiler room/six-armed guy and Yababa’s twin sister) talk about Sen/Chihiro’s growing love for Haku and vice versa; plus the fact that they appear to have been bonded starting when Chihiro fell in the river… these are standard romantic tropes. Of course this could be platonic love, in which case I should get my mind out of the gutter! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/23 "2008-09-11T18:16:25Z")
I second (seventh?) Castle in the Sky. It has a lot of cool steampunk technology going in it, and who doesn’t love a charming little film about sky pirates and a mystical city in the sky? It’s pure fantasy, through and through, and you can’t help but get lost in Miyazaki’s imagination. It’s a great escape and leaves you just feeling really good afterwards. If you want something more serious, of course Grave of the Fireflies is the way to go. A previous poster hit the nail on the head by comparing it to **Dancer in the Dark**. It’ll just leave you feeling really bummed for the rest of the day. Watch it late at night so you can sleep it off as quickly as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/24 "2008-09-11T18:17:50Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > I was going to join this thread to mention **Whisper of the Heart**. It’s a great movie and completely not what most people imagine anime to be. No giant robots or martial arts tournaments. It’s just a quiet story of a high school girl discovering what it means to be an artist. I would also suggest the pseudo-sequel to that, _The Cat Returns_. It’s just a fun story to keep you occupied for a while, but nonetheless great fun, especially for cat lovers 😃 ETA: Oh, **Pochacco** has mentioned it already. So make that a double recommend! And for people loving mindfuck, try _Catsoup_. I was deeply disturbed by it for a long time after watching it. Do not watch it with kids. I repeat, do not watch it with kids (it’s work-safe stuff, but a lot of it is just _wrong_). ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/25 "2008-09-11T18:24:42Z")
You could try [the Plague Dogs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Plague_Dogs_(film)) by Martin Rosen. Wait, Rosen? That’s not Japanese! Yes, believe it or not, there are animated films with beautiful, detailed, hand-drawn animation, and deep plots, that do not come from Japan! I know this thread was specifically about Japanese animation but I try to plug that movie at every opportunity because I think it’s visually one of the best animated features ever made, and the same people who like Miyazaki’s movies would probably like it - but let me warn you, it’s a pretty grim movie. There’s not much joy in it, a lot of disturbing and sad stuff, and the ending is extremely negative. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/26 "2008-09-11T20:34:15Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Well, maybe it’s the English translation, but several times others (such as the boiler room/six-armed guy and Yababa’s twin sister) talk about Sen/Chihiro’s growing love for Haku and vice versa; plus the fact that they appear to have been bonded starting when Chihiro fell in the river… these are standard romantic tropes. Of course this could be platonic love, in which case I should get my mind out of the gutter! 🙂 Well there’s love there, but it’s the love between two people who: (1) find out they are old friends from the time when Haku was a real river, and (2) have shared in the struggle to get out of Yubaba’s control. I don’t think it’s the love that leads to dating and marriage – partly because Haku is a _kami_ (god / spirit) and Sen/Chihiro is a human being, so that would be difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Anduinel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Anduinel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduinel)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/27 "2008-09-11T21:01:36Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > You could try [the Plague Dogs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Plague_Dogs_(film)) by Martin Rosen. > > Wait, Rosen? That’s not Japanese! Yes, believe it or not, there are animated films with beautiful, detailed, hand-drawn animation, and deep plots, that do not come from Japan! I know this thread was specifically about Japanese animation but I try to plug that movie at every opportunity because I think it’s visually one of the best animated features ever made, and the same people who like Miyazaki’s movies would probably like it - but let me warn you, it’s a pretty grim movie. There’s not much joy in it, a lot of disturbing and sad stuff, and the ending is extremely negative. Fantastic movie, done by the same studio and with some of the same VA’s as _Watership Down_. And, like _Watership Down_, if you like animals at all, it has a high likelihood of ripping your heart out and dancing all over it in pointy heels. I’ve heard rumors that there’s supposed to be a ray of hope at the end if you sit through the credits, but I haven’t owned a copy in so long that I haven’t been able to check. Seconding the recommendation, just do not watch as a double feature with _Grave of Fireflies_. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/28 "2008-09-11T21:54:07Z")
> [@A\_shameful\_cracka](#): > > Another Ghibli film (though not Miyazaki) that was good was the one with the raccoons with giant testicles, I forgot it’s name but searching for that will get it for you. FTR, the “raccoon with the giant testicles” is actually an animal native to Japan, known as a [Tanuki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanuki), a subspecies of the “raccoon dog.” They don’t always have the mask-like coloration on their face (without it, they resemble a pudgy fox more than a raccoon, IMHO) but they always, apparently, have huge balls. Carry on. I found _Porco Rosso_ a little inscrutable, myself. _Totoro_ is extremely charming, but also totally boring. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/29 "2008-09-11T21:58:14Z")
> [@Anduinel](#): > > In addition to the above recommendations, I’d like to throw _Castle Cagliostro_ onto the pile. It’s a Lupin III film, not Studio Ghibli, but still a lot of fun and probably the best of the Lupin movies. Although it is indeed not a Ghibli film, it should be pointed out that a famous Japanese director got his start by directing _The Castle of Cagliostro._ His name was…Hayao Miyazaki. And now you know…the rest of the story. (_Castle_ was also used for an American laserdisc arcade game called _Cliff Hanger_.) ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/30 "2008-09-11T22:47:59Z")
> [@mobo85](#): > > Although it is indeed not a Ghibli film, it should be pointed out that a famous Japanese director got his start by directing _The Castle of Cagliostro._ His name was…Hayao Miyazaki. And now you know…the rest of the story. _The Castle of Cagliostro_ is the first movie he directed, but before that he directed a television series: _Future Boy Conan_. _Conan_ is just as good as any of his movies, and I highly recommend it. I’ll also echo the _Whisper of the Heart_ recommendations. It is my second favorite Ghibli movie after _Princess Mononoke_. _Ocean Waves_ is another very good one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/31 "2008-09-12T00:14:04Z")
> [@CrazyChop](#): > > I would also suggest the pseudo-sequel to that, _The Cat Returns_. It’s just a fun story to keep you occupied for a while, but nonetheless great fun, especially for cat lovers. My eleven-year-old son loves anime and manga but for some reason _The Cat Returns_ totally freaks him out. It’s bad enough that one time he refused to walk into a Japanese gift shop here in L.A. that was showing it on a TV in the back. We’ve never been able to identify what about it creeps him out. My daughter loves it, though. And all the more so because it makes her older brother crazy … . ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/32 "2008-09-12T01:47:42Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > FTR, the “raccoon with the giant testicles” is actually an animal native to Japan, known as a [Tanuki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanuki), a subspecies of the “raccoon dog.” They don’t always have the mask-like coloration on their face (without it, they resemble a pudgy fox more than a raccoon, IMHO) but they always, apparently, have huge balls. To continue the hijack: _tanuki_ actually have tiny balls. I know this not because I checked but because a trivia-type tv show did a story on whether they actually had huge testicles. _Tanuki_ sculptures are often seen near the entrance of shops. Like the fox, the _tanuki_, in Japanese folklore, is a magical spirit. While the fox is malicious, the _tanuki_ is mischievous. While you want to keep the fox away, you simply want to keep the _tanuki_ happy. If you’re kind to him, he might bring good fortune your way. The [huge testicles](http://image.space.rakuten.co.jp/lg01/49/0000632649/13/img3bff21cezikczj.jpeg) (sfw) are actually a pun. One of the euphemisms for “testicles” is _kintama_ or “gold balls”. You put a _tanuki_ with huge balls of gold in the hope that business will be good. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/33 "2008-09-12T02:20:02Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > To continue the hijack: _tanuki_ actually have tiny balls. I know this not because I checked but because a trivia-type tv show did a story on whether they actually had huge testicles. Now, I am given to understand from that tanuki do have large testicles for an animal of its size, just not comically enormous as in most depictions (legendarily, the size of 8 tatami mats). But just try and find an actual picture of Tanuki testicles to prove whether this is right or wrong. _sigh_ I can’t believe the internet let me down on testicles. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/34 "2008-09-12T03:26:06Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > But just try and find an actual picture of Tanuki testicles to prove whether this is right or wrong. _sigh_ I can’t believe the internet let me down on testicles. Not pictures but a primary cite: [Seasonal Changes of the Testis in the Raccoon Dog, Nyctereutes procyonoides in Kagawa Prefecture, Japan.](http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/article/200304/000020030403A0059590.php) I have access to the full article, and the average size for their sample was 15 by 20mm, with a lower bound of 6mm and upper bound of 25mm for the minor axis. As the paper shows, the weight varies between 0.5 and 3 grams depending on the age of the specimen and the season. Back on topic, in the same line as Grave of the Fireflies, there is also [Barefoot Gen](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085218/) which deals with the aftermath of the Hiroshima bombing told from the point of view of a child. I’d recommend also [Wings of Honneamise](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093207/) about an astronaut in an alternate history. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/35 "2008-09-12T04:40:47Z")
> [@Influential\_Panda](#): > > I second (seventh?) Castle in the Sky. It has a lot of cool steampunk technology going in it, and who doesn’t love a charming little film about sky pirates and a mystical city in the sky? It’s pure fantasy, through and through, and you can’t help but get lost in Miyazaki’s imagination. It’s a great escape and leaves you just feeling really good afterwards. Ah heck… I’m going to have to head back to the video store. 😃 A local dvd/games store has a sale running on Studio Ghibli films, and I picked up 5 last night (Howl’s, Princess Mononoke, Kiki’s, Totoro, and their Earthsea adaption). I already had Spirited Away. Guess I might be heading back for Castle in the Sky (was very tempted already)… and perhaps Nausicaä. Oh dear. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/36 "2008-09-12T05:04:41Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Wow, thank you guys for the plethora of suggestions! I love having lots of new goodies to explore. I think I’ll start with _Nausicaa_ and _Howl’s Moving Castle_, and then give _Whispers of the Heart_ a try. Probably will check out _Grave of the Fireflies_ as well, but I’m not emotionally up for something too sad at the moment… > > I should also try _Kiki’s Delivery Service_ and _My Neighbor Totoro_; I vividly remember Roger Ebert going into ecstasies over the latter back on “At the Movies.” Doesn’t matter if it’s a kid’s movie – technically so are Disney and Pixar flicks (though the latter stretches the genre), but many work on additional levels and have more depth when you look at them through adult eyes. For my wife and I, _Totoro_ is our therapy movie. Whenever we’re feeling displaced or depressed, _Totoro_ goes in the DVD player. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/37 "2008-09-12T06:03:23Z")
The amazing thing was that Totoro was released as a double feature with Grave of the Fireflies in Japan. I suppose in a way it makes sense: after watching GOTF what better way to recover than the simple joys of Totoro (I am assuming this is the order in which the films were shown). Perhaps the greatest double feature in movie history. IIRC Totoro was set quite soon after the war which does give the two films a kind of thematic link. With a bit of luck the two kids in GOTF and their family might have lived to see the kind of idyllic country life in Totoro. Or conversely the family in Totoro might have succumbed to the horrors of WW2. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/38 "2008-09-12T06:41:48Z")
Okay y’all, I binged on two films tonight – _Nausicaa_ and _Howl’s_, as recommended. _Nausicaa_ continued with the Miyazaki’s umbrella theme of environmentalism. Actually, I put that badly; it’s pretty obvious this was one of his earlier films, so maybe I should say that it was a beginning part of this trend? There’s such a respect and love for nature in this stories. What’s really struck me is how _strong_ and interesting this guy’s female characters are. That’s a tremendous relief, as I always had the impression that women in _anime_ were either perfect girly-girls or evil demonesses. Obviously I was misinformed. If _Nausicaa_ fell down anywhere it was with the lack of a solid supporting cast, except for Lord Yuba. The animation was definitely not as sophisticated as the other two I’d seen previously – much more jerky, far less detailed – but that’s less important to me. (Besides, unlike the later films, _Nausicaa_ probably didn’t have either as big a budget or the benefit of computer assistance.) By the way, the English dub was excellent, with Patrick Stewart, Chris Sarandon, Edward James Olmos, Uma Thurman, Allison Lohman and Shia LaBoeuf. Next I dove into _Howl’s Moving Castle_, which was … _infreakin’credible!_ Definitely my favorite so far. The animation was positively stunning, and I’d say this had the best characterization by far, with a really deep bench of interesting, quirky, charming supporting characters. For once I loved both male and female leads. Howl was complex, seemingly cowardly and selfish and yet devoted to fighting against war. Similarly, Sophie was funny and brave, and even though she could be understandably grumpy given her situation she always persevered and reached out to others in need. The supporting cast was brilliant: Calcifer, the little kid whose name I never did quite catch (Marco?), Turnip Head, that adorable dry dog, and even the witch eventually won me over. This is destined to be a classic. (By the way I’m embarrassed how late into the film it was before I recognized how much an homage to _Wizard of Oz_ this was. I mean, Witch of the Waste? The scarecrow? The dog? The moving house? Where was my brain?? Hell, I only just now realized that Howl was even pretending to be a wizard himself. I’m slow.) You know what I’ve loved best about his films? The weight they place on compassion, where the heroine or hero will perform acts of surprising kindness to a creature or person whom others ignore or outright despise. In _Spirited Away_ it was Chihiro’s open invitation to No-Face; in _Nausicaa_ it was Nausicaa’s concern for the hideously scary insects; and in _Howl’s_, it appeared with Sophie’s stopping to help the scarecrow, her being willing to help the witch up the stairs, and even towards the dog she didn’t trust. I found these moments incredibly touching. Thank so _so_ much for recommending these to me, guys. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/39 "2008-09-12T07:26:59Z")
> [@choie](#): > > By the way, the English dub was excellent, with Patrick Stewart, Chris Sarandon, Edward James Olmos, Uma Thurman, Allison Lohman and Shia LaBoeuf. Oh, good. I’m always leery of recommending _Nausicaa_ to people and having them pick up the chopped-down _Warriors of the Wind_ dub instead. My favouite line: “That’s Lord Yupa! Kill him and you’ll be famous!” _slice&dice_ Although I still think _Kiki’s Delivery Service_ is underrated for the masterpiece it is (the landscape and cityscape especially), my favourite remains _Spirited Away_. Although I’ve been hearing good things about the latest one, _Ponyo on the Cliff by the Sea_ (I’m glad he decided not to stay retired for one last movie) ---
**Author:** ![sovtawen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@sovtawen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sovtawen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2008, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075/40 "2008-09-12T07:29:39Z")
I too have been trying to get into Japanese animation lately. My advice: don’t automatically rule out dubbing when subtitles are available (it sounds like you haven’t.) With other genres I avoid dubbing like the plague, but I think it works very well for Japanese animation, and oddly enough, I’m starting to prefer it to subtitles. I think there are two reasons for this: 1) I’d rather be appreciating the artwork than staring down at the text all the time, and 2) I seem to have trouble picking up some of the more subtle nuances of spoken Japanese, so I have to rely more on the text to pick up emotional cues than I would for, say, a French film. I actually saw most of Miyazaki’s stuff a few years ago, but I stuck to the subtitled Japanese and most of the films left me a little cold. I’m in the process of rewatching them with Disney’s high-quality dubs, and it makes a world of difference. I guess I’m a philistine. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princess-mononoke-and-spirited-away-whats-next/463075.md?page=3)