# Princeton report says short people is dumb
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [August 29, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710 "2006-08-29T20:33:05Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/41 "2006-08-30T12:30:56Z")
What’s really cute are short FAT people.
Like a talking medicine ball.
---
### Author:  [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/42 "2006-08-30T12:46:18Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#):
>
> ~Rubystreak, 60’ tall and a SUPERGENIUS
Jeez, How tall do you have to be before this higher intelligence effect kicks in?
---
### Author:  [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/43 "2006-08-30T13:17:39Z")
> [@Uvula Donor](#):
>
> Heh heh heh…you little fuckers are so cute when you get pissed off. C’mere and stand right next to my armchair, 'kay? I wanna use the top of your teeny little flat head to hold my beer. Keep quiet and I’ll let you hold the remote.
Snort - that cracked me right up.
---
### Author:  [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/44 "2006-08-30T14:03:40Z")
What elfbabe said.
Also, please know that the word “explain” when used statistically does not mean anything normative. It’s a pretty neutral term.
I’ve got a short, smart kid, and I know plenty of short brilliant people. That doesn’t mean their findings are bullshit, or that one should react with bitterness or hysteria. We have a scientific literacy problem in this country – and the media doesn’t help a bit. Now THAT’s something to be bitter about.
Not that anyone gives a rat’s ass what I think… but this finding is credible to me from an expectations standpoint. I haven’t read the thing, but I’ve seen the way people treat taller kids. Tall kids are often mistaken for being older than they are. Therefore in casual (and even not-so-casual) encounters, they are more likely to be treated that way. People will use bigger words, more complex grammar in talking to them. They will expect these kids to know more and do more than their peers of similar age (but shorter stature). There are a whole bunch of direct and indirect ways taller kids may get pushed and prodded to develop sooner, and in ways that pay off in intellectual and career successes later in life.
This is probably just one very small piece of the explanation, but it’s enough to make sense to me.
---
### Author:  [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/45 "2006-08-30T14:34:53Z")
> [@Polamalu](#):
>
> This has to be the dumbest post I’ve ever seen. I finally registered as a guest to point out how stupid this is. For the record, I am a 5’7" (rounded up slightly…) male.
>
> For those of you who didn’t read the paper, or, if you’re like **Captain Lance Murdoch** , don’t have the reading comprehension skills to figure it out, this study is a **response** to other studies.
>
> For these studies, the thought “correlation != causation” would be more appropriate. They generate headlines like “Tall People Earn Average Of $789 Per Inch More Than Shorter People” and make the conclusion that this is based on discrimination. This study is a brilliant use of statistics and science that refutes this claim, or at the very least explains that the effect of discrimination is exaggerated.
>
> The OP uses diversionary tactics, such as strawmen. (“The paper attempts to rationalize discrimination against the short” – note that the very sentence the OP quoted said "an alternative to explanations for the height premium that rely on **pure** discrimination or social stigma against shorter individuals.) The paper explains that when cognitive ability is controlled for, the height premium disappears on **their dataset**. I don’t think the authors are prepared to claim that no one ever discriminates against short people.
>
> Then, he diverts into a criticism of Leviticus. I think it’s safe to say that has absolutely no bearing on the validity of the study.
>
> Finally, he suggests that the study is not valid because he is 5’6 and thinks himself to be intelligent. Though I could joke and say that your complete misunderstanding of a _statistical argument_ demonstrates your lack of intelligence, I won’t.
>
> As I continue to wade through this mess of a post, I see that there is more trash that I would have to work through to do a full point-by-point rebuttal of this verbal diarrhea. Unfortunately, I don’t really have the patience for that. It’s safe to say that the OP’s insecurities have made him completely unreasonable on this issue.
Well, I disagree with everything you wrote, but Ill’ do it more politely than you did.
And remember when I said
> [@](#):
>
> But, of course, I could just be an anomaly. Rigorous research looks at the big picture.
I mean did you even read that part before you accused me of nor understand statistics?
And of course the Bible has nothing to do with Case and Paxson’s argument. I never asserted that it did. I was just using it to show that such discrimination has been around for a long long time. I thought that was rather obvious, but for the record, just for you **Polamalu** , I do not think Case and paxson wrote the book of Leviticus, nor do they refer to it in their work.
And I never said the authors claim that no one discriminates against short people. That would be your straw-man. I said they provide a rationalization for wage discrimination when they said
> [@](#):
>
> Together, this evidence supplies a rationale for why economic returns to height continue to be observed, even in wealthy countries where increasingly small fractions of workers do physically demanding work. It also provides an alternative to explanations for the height premium that rely on pure discrimination or social stigma against shorter individuals.
Someone else took exception with me because they felt the inclusion of the word “pure” excused the authors of the first part of their statement. I disagree. It seems more like a vague hedge to me. And what “explanations” are they refering to? A cite would have been nice.
---
### Author:  [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/46 "2006-08-30T14:45:16Z")
> [@Waverly](#):
>
> Yes, but that is just one anecdotal datapoint. _Most_ short people are dumb. Those that aren’t tend to be funny looking and ill-tempered.
Oh good. I’m short but funny-looking and ill-tempered- maybe there’s still hope for me 🆒
---
### Author:  [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/47 "2006-08-30T15:14:07Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#):
>
> Oh good. I’m short but funny-looking and ill-tempered- maybe there’s still hope for me 🆒
Especially if you can offload that ring of power your people have been toting around. Oh, you’re so cute I wish I could put you in my breast pocked and carry you around with me all day.
---
### Author:  [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/48 "2006-08-30T15:23:50Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Together, this evidence supplies a rationale for why economic returns to height continue to be observed, even in wealthy countries where increasingly small fractions of workers do physically demanding work. It also provides an alternative to explanations for the height premium that rely on pure discrimination or social stigma against shorter individuals.
Doesn’t that assume that intelligence has anything to do with earning power, though? I mean the measurable, standardized-test intelligence. In my experience, the skills required for higher-level jobs have nothing to do with the intelligence these tests measure. If you want to make VP, yout SAT scores are not really going to help.
---
### Author:  [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/49 "2006-08-30T15:29:56Z")
> [@Waverly](#):
>
> Especially if you can offload that ring of power your people have been toting around. Oh, you’re so cute I wish I could put you in my breast pocked and carry you around with me all day.
I’ve lost the ring of power somewhere in my car. That explains why my car sometimes seems to be invisible to other drivers on the freeways.
---
### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/50 "2006-08-30T15:44:41Z")
Hehe, wee folk and their shenanigans. Hush now **Captain Lance Murdoch** and get back to work.
---
### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/51 "2006-08-30T17:01:29Z")
> [@Captain Lance Murdoch](#):
>
> I seem to do okay with my putrid 66 inches.
I seem to do OK with just 6 inches. But they’re not putrid, so maybe that explains it.
> [@](#):
>
> So thanks a lot ladies!
Damn straight! 😃
I think that Case and Paxson are onto something. I’m pretty tall, and whenever I hit my head on a low ceiling, I say “Ow! That smarts!”
**Lance** , people have tried explaining the study to you, but you refuse to get it. Maybe it’s just over your head.
---
### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/52 "2006-08-30T17:02:58Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#):
>
> ~Rubystreak, 60’ tall and a SUPERGENIUS
Run! It’s Smartzilla!
Bet you tell a lot of guys “Hey! My eyes are _up here_!”
---
### Author:  [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/53 "2006-08-30T17:45:19Z")
> [@tdn](#):
>
> Bet you tell a lot of guys “Hey! My eyes are _up here_!”
A lot of guys might be just tall enough to be used as a toy. Her eyes might be the least of their problems.
---
### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/54 "2006-08-30T17:59:59Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#):
>
> D’Oh!!! I just re-read…
>
> -Astroboy14 (now 4’6")
What happened? Did you lose your erection and stand up?
---
### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/55 "2006-08-30T18:07:19Z")
> [@Waverly](#):
>
> A lot of guys might be just tall enough to be used as a toy. Her eyes might be the least of their problems.
They might have even worse problems if they incorrectly answer the question “Hey, does this tarp make my ass look big?”
---
### Author:  [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/56 "2006-08-30T18:14:18Z")
Yes
kids are dumb.
---
### Author:  [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/57 "2006-08-30T18:18:02Z")
> [@Captain Lance Murdoch](#):
>
> And I never said the authors claim that no one discriminates against short people. That would be your straw-man. I said they provide a rationalization for wage discrimination when they said
>
> Someone else took exception with me because they felt the inclusion of the word “pure” excused the authors of the first part of their statement. I disagree. It seems more like a vague hedge to me. And what “explanations” are they refering to? A cite would have been nice.
Uhhh, but you still just aren’t getting it. People can claim all they want they you don’t need to be a genius to be a CEO, but honestly, how many doctors or engineers do you know that have IQ’s of 90? They are not saying that it’s okay to pay short people less because they’re short, they’re saying that it’s okay to pay less intelligent people less because they’re less intelligent. Because shortness correlates with a lack of intelligence, it makes sense that, on average, short people will earn less.
The practice that they are NOT defending (and that you’re constructing a straw-man of) is saying, “okay, we’ve got two applicants with IQ’s of 125. One is 5’2” and the other is 6’2". Let’s offer the tall one $100K a year and shorty $50K."
The point of the study is that differences in intelligence seem to account for the variance in incomes and such unfair discrimination is not taking place.
Do you understand the study? I mean, do you really? I can get you a PDF copy if you want to e-mail me from my profile.
---
### Author:  [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/58 "2006-08-30T18:23:23Z")
> [@threemae](#):
>
> The practice that they are NOT defending (and that you’re constructing a straw-man of) is saying, “okay, we’ve got two applicants with IQ’s of 125. One is 5’2” and the other is 6’2". Let’s offer the tall one $100K a year and shorty $50K."
Of course now that we have a week of “SHORT PEOPLE ARE STUPID” headlines people are probably going to start offering the shorty half.
---
### Author:  [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/59 "2006-08-30T19:22:44Z")
> [@threemae](#):
>
> They are not saying that it’s okay to pay short people less because they’re short, they’re saying that it’s okay to pay less intelligent people less because they’re less intelligent. Because shortness correlates with a lack of intelligence, it makes sense that, on average, short people will earn less.
Except that nobody gets paid more because of their intelligence, at least not any intelligence that you can measure on a standardized test. Your engineer might be a genius, but that’s not how you make a lot of money. The VP that he answers to is probably not a genius, but makes twice as much.
---
### Author:  [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710/60 "2006-08-30T19:28:01Z")
> [@saoirse](#):
>
> Except that nobody gets paid more because of their intelligence, at least not any intelligence that you can measure on a standardized test. Your engineer might be a genius, but that’s not how you make a lot of money. The VP that he answers to is probably not a genius, but makes twice as much.
I would disagree with this statement, standardized tests are very good and indicated a person’s genral intelligence, comprehension ad ability to reason. Engineers are not the only smart people and I know many engineers who make a healthy living.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710.md?page=2)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/princeton-report-says-short-people-is-dumb/370710.md?page=4)