# Principals Meeting on Torture: Can We Impeach Now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/principals-meeting-on-torture-can-we-impeach-now/445301 "2008-04-14T14:46:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/principals-meeting-on-torture-can-we-impeach-now/445301/121 "2008-04-15T19:04:50Z")
[QUOTE=Uncommon Sense] You make it sound like it’s an across-the-board policy that we waterboard or torture everyone that looks at one of us crossly. I would hope that the CIA or whoever has the authority to extract critical information that could save the lives of the non-scum (the terrorists being the scum) would make damn sure that they have the right person(s) under arrest for questioning. If they know damn well that this person holds the key to disarming an operation that is in the process of killing others and those others being people that live in this country or are fighting for our right to live in “The Land of the Free”, I really don’t see how you can say that that person’s rights are the same as those they are trying to destroy. If the CIA is going around willy nilly waterboarding every suspect without regard as to the critical nature of their position in the terrorist community then you may certainly take issue with that. It’s when they’re about to kill those of us that cherish our right to walk freely in this land that gets me, and that’s when I become less than understanding in regards to their _rights_. [/QUOTE] Ah! The old “ticking bomb” scenario. Hasn’t that been played-out like…forever? Besides which I just posted a link showing that the CIA is far from omniscient when it comes to branding “suspects.” And another showing you how the current Gov manipulates your own Constitution in order to torture so-called “suspects” – again, a group that includes just about anyone they want for any reason they want. I can cite quite a few more if you’d like, then again, as long as _you_ feel “safe” why care what happens to a few unlucky idiots who get tortured for no other reason than an “honest mistake”? Here’s hoping you never become said “mistake.” Happy travels. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/principals-meeting-on-torture-can-we-impeach-now/445301/122 "2008-04-15T19:21:39Z")
Lots of ‘unlucky idiots’ out there BTW: [Terror Suspect List Yields Few Arrests](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/24/AR2007082402256_pf.html) > [@](#): > > The government’s terrorist screening database flagged Americans and foreigners as suspected terrorists almost 20,000 times last year. But only a small fraction of those questioned were arrested or denied entry into the United States, raising concerns among critics about privacy and the list’s effectiveness. > > \ > > The government says the database is a powerful tool for identifying and tracking suspected terrorists and for sharing intelligence, and that its purpose is not necessarily to make arrests. But the new details about the numbers, disclosed in an FBI budget document and in interviews, raise questions about the database’s effectiveness and its impact on privacy, critics said. They argued that the number of hits relative to arrests was alarmingly high and indicated that the threshold for including someone on a watch list was too low, potentially violating thousands of Americans’ civil liberties when they are stopped. > > David Sobel, senior counsel with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a privacy organization, said the numbers “suggest a staggeringly high rate of false positives with respect to the identification of supposed terrorists.” He added that “this really confirms the long-standing fear that this list is inaccurate and ultimately ineffective as an anti-terrorism tool.” > > Jayson P. Ahern, deputy commissioner for U.S. Customs and Border Protection, said focusing on arrests misses **“a much larger universe” of suspicious U.S. citizens.** – bolding mine. So it appears that the answer to the current failure is to simply make _more_ people fall under the category of “suspicious.” Thus I repeat, where is this so-called Land Of The Free? A nation where its citizens and/or visitors can be arrested or placed on highly ineffective suspect lists – through illegal methods mind you – sure doesn’t sound like one. 1984 is here. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/principals-meeting-on-torture-can-we-impeach-now/445301/123 "2008-04-15T19:26:46Z")
One last cite for good measure: [**‘Extraordinary-rendition’ procedure unreliable, says CIA vet who created it**](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080414.wrendition14/BNStory/International/home) Not going to quote this one at all – you need to read it to believe it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/principals-meeting-on-torture-can-we-impeach-now/445301/124 "2008-04-15T20:07:51Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] I’m saying, it’s too little too late. That’s all. [/QUOTE] Nah, they may need their practice. After all, McCain could still win in November: I think it’s the less likely possibility, but it’s far from impossible. And the MSM’s support for GWB will be nothing compared to their fawning over McCain. And even if Obama or Hillary wins in November, the Dems will need a spine in order to prevent 41 GOP Senators from being the tail that wags the dog, that runs the country simply by blocking cloture on anything that doesn’t suit them. It may be the end of the Bush Administration, but we’re still in the early rounds of a longer fight. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/principals-meeting-on-torture-can-we-impeach-now/445301/125 "2008-04-15T20:10:19Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Thus I repeat, where is this so-called Land Of The Free? [/QUOTE] Sorry, I missed my cue: > [@Rufus T. Firefly](#): > > _If any form of pleasure is exhibited > Report to me and it will be prohibited > I’ll put my foot down, so shall it be > This is the land of the free._ ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/principals-meeting-on-torture-can-we-impeach-now/445301/126 "2008-04-15T20:30:11Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Sorry, I missed my cue: > [@Rufus T Firefly](#): > > If any form of pleasure is exhibited > Report to me and it will be prohibited > I’ll put my foot down, so shall it be > This is the land of the free. [/QUOTE] Got it: laugh while we can. Now don’t you dare go start a war with your widow’s money. Oooops! Too late, isn’t it? :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/principals-meeting-on-torture-can-we-impeach-now/445301.md?page=6)