# Printed-On Braille? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 16, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729 "2006-11-16T20:18:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/1 "2006-11-16T20:18:03Z")
We have new signage at the hospital where I work, and last night I noticed that _some_ of the signs have the Braille version of the writing underneath, but instead of being _raised_, the Braille like the word above it, is printed on. I thought to myself, “What the hell **good** is that to a blind person?” Seems to me they ought to put the Braille on when they manufacture the sign. What am I not getting? I work nights, so there was no one in Engineering there to ask. Thanks Quasi ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/2 "2006-11-16T20:57:11Z")
[QUOTE=Quasimodem] “What the hell **good** is that to a blind person?” [/QUOTE] It’s obviously for people who _used_to be blind, but have had some type of surgery to restore their eyesight. Since they haven’t yet learned what letters look like in print, they have to rely on their ability to read Braile with their eyes. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/3 "2006-11-16T21:04:07Z")
The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the Braille was meant to be applied later on, but never was. The printed Braille may serve as a template or guide of some kind … perhaps for an automated reader-applicator device? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/4 "2006-11-16T21:07:56Z")
Or they might have some stupid rules in place which require the signs to have the information on them in Braille, without specifying that it has to be usable by blind people. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/5 "2006-11-16T21:38:02Z")
[QUOTE=Pygmy Rugger] It’s obviously for people who _used_to be blind, but have had some type of surgery to restore their eyesight. Since they haven’t yet learned what letters look like in print, they have to rely on their ability to read Braile with their eyes. Duh. [/QUOTE] “Duh” is right. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/6 "2006-11-16T22:28:21Z")
[QUOTE=Quasimodem] I work nights, so there was no one in Engineering there to ask. Thanks Quasi [/QUOTE] Why not pick up the phone, during the day, and call engineering. Ask them. They should know if anyone does! ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/7 "2006-11-16T23:04:56Z")
[QUOTE=spingears] Why not pick up the phone, during the day, and call engineering. Ask them. They should know if anyone does! [/QUOTE] But that would be robbing some Doper of the opportunity of answering the question, thereby making his/her day, wouldn’t it?🙂 Q ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/8 "2006-11-17T12:11:44Z")
[QUOTE=Quasimodem] But that would be robbing some Doper of the opportunity of answering the question, thereby making his/her day, wouldn’t it?🙂 Q [/QUOTE] But of course, just use a crystal ball. :rolleyes: Not enough information to know what engineering or whoever intended. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/9 "2006-11-17T12:25:49Z")
[QUOTE=Pygmy Rugger] It’s obviously for people who _used_to be blind, but have had some type of surgery to restore their eyesight. Since they haven’t yet learned what letters look like in print, they have to rely on their ability to read Braile with their eyes. Duh. [/QUOTE] So what are _currently_ blind people supposed to do? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/10 "2006-11-17T13:01:46Z")
It made my day just highlighting the spoiler boxes. ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/11 "2006-11-17T13:39:02Z")
I’ve never quite understood how Braille is supposed to work on signs anyway. Think about it - if you’re blind, how do you even know the sign’s there? Do you just feel about randomly in the hope of finding a sign to read? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/12 "2006-11-17T13:55:46Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] So what are _currently_ blind people supposed to do? [/QUOTE] They have someone read it to them “Two dots next to each other, the one dot below that on the right, then one dot on the bottom row on the left” Maybe the dogs can bark it out. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/13 "2006-11-17T15:21:00Z")
[QUOTE=Joey P] They have someone read it to them “Two dots next to each other, the one dot below that on the right, then one dot on the bottom row on the left” Maybe the dogs can bark it out. [/QUOTE] Yes, that’s it! Instead of Braile, they should require Morse Code on signs. The dogs could probably learn to bark that much more easily than Braile. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/14 "2006-11-17T16:05:36Z")
Can you confirm that they were completely flush with the sign, no identation at all? I know identation is not the conventional way, but could it work? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/15 "2006-11-17T16:05:47Z")
[QUOTE=Alive At Both Ends] I’ve never quite understood how Braille is supposed to work on signs anyway. Think about it - if you’re blind, how do you even know the sign’s there? Do you just feel about randomly in the hope of finding a sign to read? [/QUOTE] Signs designating permanent rooms and spaces (e.g., men’s and women’s rooms, room numbers, exit signs) must have raised and Brailled letters; must comply with finish and contrast standards; and must be mounted at a certain height and location. Specifically, guidelines in the [Americans with Disabilities Act](http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm) specify that Braille and other raised character signage be positioned a maximum of 2 to 8 inches from the latch side of a door frame, and centered 60 inches from the floor. So, that is how blind people “know” where to find a sign. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/16 "2006-11-17T16:17:41Z")
The only explanation I can think of is that the dots were there so that someone would later know where to put the bumps. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/17 "2006-11-18T01:44:41Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] specify that Braille and other raised character signage be positioned a maximum of 2 to 8 inches from the latch side of a door frame, and centered 60 inches from the floor. So, that is how blind people “know” where to find a sign. [/QUOTE] But how do they find the doorframe to begin with? I understand that a mobile blind person with the extendable stick can find their way around as well as a sighted person and a doorframe is easy to find, but I’ve seen many blind people before and I’ve never seen one attempt to read braille, except for one time in an elevator. If it wasn’t for the stick, I would never have known he was blind. He got onto the elevator, stuck his hand out and his hand landed on one of the numbers and then he reached up to the correct one, felt the braille for a split second and punched the button. It was obviously something he had done thousands of times. ---
**Author:** ![SkiDemon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90db22/32.png) [@SkiDemon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkiDemon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/printed-on-braille/380729/18 "2006-11-19T05:05:24Z")
Most blind people have some residual vision. Like the term blind doesn’t mean seeing nothing but darkness. Legal blindness is 20/200… that is a blind person can only see something at 20 feet, that sighted people can see at 200 feet. Two of my best friends are deaf-blind but still have a lot of usable hearing and sight. Both wear hearing aids and glasses and get a lot of use out of them. > [@](#): > > and I’ve never seen one attempt to read braille, That’s b/c Braille isn’t really pushed all that much in programs for the Blind. It’s like Sign for the Deaf. One of my friends is legally blind, and didn’t learn Braille til high school, when he went to Perkins School for the Blind. I think too, that the fact that most (90%) of blind kids are mainstreamed might have something to do with it. When you’re mainstreamed usually you get very minmal services, and it’s rare to get something like a Teacher of the blind/low vision However, Braille is slowly making a comeback… they’ve discovered that most employed blind folks are very literate in Braille, so they made the connection that Braille leads to jobs and employment.