# Prior to the 2014 invasion of Ukraine, was there any evidence of ethnic cleansing of Russians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prior-to-the-2014-invasion-of-ukraine-was-there-any-evidence-of-ethnic-cleansing-of-russians/980042 "2023-02-19T17:42:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prior-to-the-2014-invasion-of-ukraine-was-there-any-evidence-of-ethnic-cleansing-of-russians/980042/1 "2023-02-19T17:42:34Z")
I want to be clear that I am asking for factual responses, to the best it’s possible. If this evolves into a debate later, fine, but I’m not looking to stir up trouble. I’ll explain: Over in the Trumpy parts of the internet, I’m seeing more and more people claiming that Putin was right to invade Ukraine because of the ethnic cleansing of Russians that was going on. I am by NO MEANS buying that, and even if true, the world had come to grudgingly accept the changes to the map after 2014, so it doesn’t explain the 2022 invasion. The FQ I have is whether there is any evidence that there was in fact ethnic cleansing of Russians going on. Indeed, I’d really appreciate evidence that Putin fabricated the whole thing, since I’ll admit I would rather that be the case. I’ve not found anything searching, other than an occasional reference to Putin’s claim. But nothing that tries to actually support it with evidence. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prior-to-the-2014-invasion-of-ukraine-was-there-any-evidence-of-ethnic-cleansing-of-russians/980042/2 "2023-02-19T18:05:25Z")
Nothing well documented since WWII-era Ukraine, which _was_ horrific and involved actual Nazis. I think _that’s_ the kind of thing Putin is trying to evoke by using a rather antiquated word like “Nazis” in so much of his rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prior-to-the-2014-invasion-of-ukraine-was-there-any-evidence-of-ethnic-cleansing-of-russians/980042/3 "2023-02-19T18:12:50Z")
How do you define ethnic cleansing? Murder/expulsion? I think the concern was for lesser things like discouraging Russian language and culture, for example: > **[New Language Requirement Raises Concerns in Ukraine](https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/01/19/new-language-requirement-raises-concerns-ukraine)** > > A new legal provision on the use of the Ukrainian language, part of a broader state language law, raises concerns about protection for minority languages. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prior-to-the-2014-invasion-of-ukraine-was-there-any-evidence-of-ethnic-cleansing-of-russians/980042/4 "2023-02-19T18:41:40Z")
They’re probably drawing on this: > **[2014 Odesa clashes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes)** > >  After the change of government: > Pro-Maidans > Anti-Maidans ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prior-to-the-2014-invasion-of-ukraine-was-there-any-evidence-of-ethnic-cleansing-of-russians/980042/5 "2023-02-19T20:55:57Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > I’ve not found anything searching, other than an occasional reference to Putin’s claim. But nothing that tries to actually support it with evidence. That’s because, as you guessed, there is no evidence to support it because it didn’t actually happen. The “8 years of genocide/war/whatever” against Russians in Donetsk and Luhansk that the world ignored is a lie that Putin has pushed for internal propaganda consumption. [According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#War_in_Donbas_(before_2022_invasion)) 3,404 civilians, including 306 foreigners were killed in the 8 years from 6 April 2014 – 31 December 2021, the vast majority occurring during the first two years when there was much more active conflict than in the next six years. The pdf of the report is [here](https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf), and is absolutely worth taking a close look at. Its only 3 pages, but it graphs out civilian casualties by month and cause from Jan 2018-Dec 2021. There was a total of 26 civilian deaths in 2020, and 25 in 2021. It should also be noted that these are total civilian casualties **on both sides of the conflict** , not Russian civilians. The DPR and LPRs own figures support the UNs finding; the UN says 2,420 civilians and DPR fighters killed from 6 April 2014 – 15 February 2015, the DPR says 5,042 civilians and DPR fighters killed from the longer period of 6 April 2014 – 18 February 2022. Similarly, the UN says 1,185 civilians and LPR fighters killed from 1 May 2014 – 15 February 2015, the LPR says 1,998 civilians and LPR fighters killed in the longer period from 6 April 2014 – 23 February 2022. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2023, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prior-to-the-2014-invasion-of-ukraine-was-there-any-evidence-of-ethnic-cleansing-of-russians/980042/6 "2023-02-21T08:29:23Z")
The evidence that would support such a claim would be the numbers of Russian speakers moving to Russia from the disputed areas while they were governed by Ukraine, and oppressive measures aimed by the Ukrainian government at Russian speakers and their community organisations, activities, media, etc. And then compare that with similar evidence relating to Ukrainians in the Russia-held territories since 2014 (not to mention since last year).