# Prioritize the Trump target. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 2, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537 "2016-10-02T22:41:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/41 "2016-10-03T20:00:50Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Are you kidding? Trumps fans would accept ANYthing from him. Even now, some of Trumps base think that Russia helped us defeat the Soviet Union Communists during World War 1. Hadn’t heard the “Russia helped us against the Soviets” thing. (Good gravy–Hillary has GOT to add funding for US basic education!) But as asahi wrote, it’s not a question of converting the “Trump is God” believers, it’s a question of chipping away at the convictions of the less-fervent. > [@CarnalK](#): > > The thing is, this $900 million loss was already public record. Trump actually wrote about it in one of his books, The Art of the Comeback. I don’t think anybody has not heard of his bankruptcies, so maybe “billion dollar loser” isn’t the angle to take. … Seeing that “$915,729,293” on a familiar form (well, state forms, but they do resemble the federal version) has an impact that is missing from ‘he wrote about it in a book.’ ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/42 "2016-10-04T04:09:50Z")
Focus on Trump not paying his contractors and workers-run ads on that in every swing state and bring the topic up at every conceivable opportunity. This attack undermines Trump with his core support base, the white working-class, especially the small business blue-collar contractors like plumbers and carpenters who in turn make up a significant portion of the electorate in most of the swing states including Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, North Carolina, Iowa, and Nevada. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/43 "2016-10-04T04:18:28Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Focus on Trump not paying his contractors and workers-run ads on that in every swing state and bring the topic up at every conceivable opportunity. This attack undermines Trump with his core support base, the white working-class, especially the small business blue-collar contractors like plumbers and carpenters who in turn make up a significant portion of the electorate in most of the swing states including Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, North Carolina, Iowa, and Nevada. There’s also this little packet of C-4. [Revealed: Trump ditched US workers and secretly purchased steel and aluminum for last two projects from China](https://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/revealed-trump-ditched-us-workers-and-secretly-purchased-steel-and-aluminum-for-last-two-projects-from-china/) > [@](#): > > Plenty of blue-collar workers believe that, as president, Donald Trump would be ready to fight off U.S. trade adversaries and reinvigorate the country’s manufacturing industries through his commitment to the Rust Belt. What they likely don’t know is that Trump has been stiffing American steel workers on his own construction projects for years, choosing to deprive untold millions of dollars from four key electoral swing states and instead directing it to China—the country whose trade practices have helped decimate the once-powerful industrial center of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/44 "2016-10-04T04:49:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > There’s also this little packet of C-4. > [Revealed: Trump ditched US workers and secretly purchased steel and aluminum for last two projects from China](https://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/revealed-trump-ditched-us-workers-and-secretly-purchased-steel-and-aluminum-for-last-two-projects-from-china/) This is one which I’d run with if I were on Clinton’s team. Vote for Trump! Chinese workers need the money! The problem is that Trump has redefined the term “Teflon.” > [@Webster's dictionary next edition](#): > > Teflon: That stuff which keeps your eggs from sticking to the frying pan. > Donald Trump. Nothing can touch him. Chris Cillizza on The Fix has the article [This ‘Apprentice’ story would kill most candidacies. For Trump, it’s just another Monday.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/03/this-apprentice-story-would-kill-most-candidacies-for-trump-its-just-another-monday/?hpid=hp_special-topic-chain_fix-apprentice-240pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory) which links to this gem from the Simpsons, [Mr. Burns is Indestructible](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI0euMFAWF8). > [@Chris](#): > > “All of your diseases are in perfect balance,” explains the doctor. Burns has what is called “Three Stooges Syndrome”; all of his diseases are trying to push through the door of his body but, in the process, blocking each other out so that no one can get through. > > That’s Trump when it comes to bad press. There are SO many bad stories about him that they all sort of block the other ones out. So a story that would kill the normal candidacy doesn’t have that same effect on Trump. > > Of course, there’s another lesson in that Simpsons clip above for Trump. Mr. Burns quickly concludes he is indestructible, ignoring the doctor’s warning that “even the slightest breeze” could upend the perfect balance of his many diseases and send him spiraling downward. For Trump, the debate may have disrupted his own delicate balance. Or the Miss Universe story. Or the tax return story. Or his wild speech in Pennsylvania on Saturday. Or this “Apprentice” story. > > Or, as always with Trump, maybe not. Taking the conventional approach, there are going to be the swing voters in the swing states. Who are they and what would be the right breeze to move them? I presume that this is being carefully looked at now over the HRC for Pres. offices. What says the Dope? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/45 "2016-10-04T05:15:42Z")
"Donald Trump is a putz. He hasn’t paid taxes for twenty years only because he took such massive losses in the 1990’s that he gets to a negative capital gains tax to deduct from his taxable income to this day. And yes, that means he’s worth less now than he was then. Some rich guy! "And now he’s in the Republican Party? The party that wants to get rid of all capital gains taxes? But if you don’t _pay_ taxes on capital gains, why would you get to write capital losses _off_ your tax bill? You _wouldn’t,_ that’s what. Donald Trump’s tax plan would have left him in debt to the IRS for decades. He’s a stupid lunkhead. “Compare that to my party, the smart people’s party. Look at Marc Rich, a good friend of mine and my husband’s, and a Democrat like all \*smart \*rich people. He owed 100 _million_ dollars in taxes. What did he do? He gave Bill and me slightly more than one-half of 1% of that, and my husband pardoned him. That’s how _actual_ billionaires evade taxes. _That’s_ smart. Marc Rich was a winner because he played on our team. Donald John Trump is a loser. Vote for the winner.” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/46 "2016-10-04T05:21:00Z")
Wait, sorry, that was too long and complex for the common clay of the New West. She should go with, “I have boobs, you must obey!” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/47 "2016-10-04T05:30:59Z")
The sad thing is, maybe she should just be blunt about her brand of transactional politics. At least it gets the real differences out there. “Yes, I’m a crook, but at least I didn’t lose _nine hundred million dollars_ in one year. Wouldn’t you rather the country be pilfered by me than bankrupted by him?” ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/48 "2016-10-04T05:49:04Z")
Cite that Hillary is a crook who is preparing to pilfer the country? Also, for future reference, I believe the word you’re looking for is, “plunder”. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/49 "2016-10-04T06:00:45Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Cite that Hillary is a crook who is preparing to pilfer the country? Also, for future reference, I believe the word you’re looking for is, “plunder”. _I_ said “pilfer,” trying to indicate that she’ll skim off a little bit, and _I_ don’t like her. If you think she’ll “plunder” the country, that’s expecting another level of villainy. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/50 "2016-10-04T06:13:17Z")
I don’t think that Hillary has any serious intention to plunder the country like one might expect of Mitt Romney. She might try to make a fast buck selling influence/access/pardons, which is why I don’t trust her in the office, but I don’t think she’s actually trying to loot the country wholesale. I don’t know what Trump would do, but it’d almost certainly be stupid. So Hillary is venal & vain, while Trump is particularly reckless with money, and has no real credibility in anything else. She’s the less risky crook. Is that clear enough? For a cite, how about the Marc Rich pardon? > **[Marc Rich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich#U.S._indictment_and_pardon)** > > Marc Rich (born Marcell David Reich; December 18, 1934 – June 26, 2013) was an international commodities trader, financier, and businessman. He founded the commodities company Glencore, and was later indicted in the United States on federal charges of tax evasion, wire fraud, racketeering, and making oil deals with Iran during the Iran hostage crisis. He fled to Switzerland at the time of the indictment and never returned to the United States. He received a widely criticized presidential pardo > [@](#): > > On January 20, 2001, hours before leaving office, U.S. President Bill Clinton granted Rich a highly controversial presidential pardon. Several of Clinton’s strongest supporters distanced themselves from the decision.[23] Former President Jimmy Carter, a fellow Democrat, said, “I don’t think there is any doubt that some of the factors in his pardon were attributable to his large gifts. In my opinion, that was disgraceful.”[24] Clinton himself later expressed regret for issuing the pardon, saying that “it wasn’t worth the damage to my reputation.”[9] > > Clinton’s critics alleged that Rich’s pardon had been bought, as Denise Rich had given more than $1 million[25] to Clinton’s political party (the Democratic Party), including more than $100,000 to the Senate campaign of the president’s wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and $450,000 to the Clinton Library foundation during Clinton’s time in office.[21] Clinton explained his decision by noting that similar cases were settled in civil, not criminal court. > > Clinton also cited clemency pleas he had received from Israeli government officials, including then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak. Rich had made substantial donations to Israeli charitable foundations over the years, and many senior Israeli officials, such as Shimon Peres and Ehud Olmert, argued on his behalf behind the scenes. I’m not editing in links to all the footnotes. This is what Clintonian decision-making has looked like. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/51 "2016-10-04T10:32:24Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The thing is, this $900 million loss was already public record. Trump actually wrote about it in one of his books, The Art of the Comeback. I don’t think anybody has not heard of his bankruptcies, so maybe “billion dollar loser” isn’t the angle to take. Despite the apparent legality, the way he structured things to beat the taxman is what I think steams most Americans. I get your point, but there’s something about seeing the numbers on official tax documents. It’s the difference between hearing about someone’s indiscretions and actually producing a sex tape. The bigger question is, are there other ‘sex tapes’ that exist? Probably so. That’s probably the issue. Until Donald Trump releases tax returns, he leaves himself open to the human imagination and the freedom of the press to create whatever narrative they want. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/52 "2016-10-04T10:39:58Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > So Hillary is venal & vain, while Trump is particularly reckless with money. Wait, are you in all seriousness implying that vanity is more of an issue with HRC than DJC? On what planet are you living? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/53 "2016-10-04T10:48:07Z")
Planet Bernie. He’s still a Bro. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/54 "2016-10-04T10:53:14Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > _I_ said “pilfer,” trying to indicate that she’ll skim off a little bit, and _I_ don’t like her. If you think she’ll “plunder” the country, that’s expecting another level of villainy. 1. Pilfer is not a synonym of plunder or skimming. Pilfer is a synonym of steal. One pilfers specific items. One cannot “pilfer America” unless one plans to steal America and sell it at a pawnshop. 2. Other random peoples’ characterization of the Marc Rich pardon as having been prompted by campaign donation is not actual evidence of a quid pro quo action. Furthermore, even if actual evidence was provided showing that Marc Rich was pardoned specifically because of the donations, it would merely demonstrate the Clintons’ ability to plunder the bank accounts of their wealthy friends. It would not be pilfering, stealing, or plundering _America_, even if there was evidence of bribery. Which there isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/55 "2016-10-04T11:29:01Z")
I don’t think the no taxes thing is going to matter to his fans, since what he did was legal. Pointing out that his tax plan doesn’t fix the issue should make a difference, but I’m not sure it will. I think Hilary needs to stay above the fray as much as possible. Let Donald do most of the talking. From what I hear, the big worry is getting the young people to vote. How do you fight apathy? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/56 "2016-10-04T11:38:52Z")
There are a hundred other, more important and relevant things that _should_ disqualify Trump in the minds of voters, and therefore in an ideal world _should_ be the focus of Clinton’s attacks, but for some reason Trump’s legal non-payment of taxes seems to be getting some traction. So, even though I don’t fault him for this, I suppose it should be the focus of some attack ads and perhaps rally speeches, maybe for a week or so. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/57 "2016-10-04T14:28:16Z")
Changing my mind again. I think that keeping going on the tax story is the way to go. White suburban women represent one group of the swing voters in swing states who can make or break the election. 538 has [an article](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/suburban-white-women-weigh-their-options-in-a-bizarre-election/) on them today. I liked one quote: > [@](#): > > DeMarco, despite her concerns about Trump’s words and demeanor, decided her vote was needed to block a Clinton victory. She sees herself as supporting traditional Republican values more than any one candidate. > > “You work hard, you save your money, you do the right thing, don’t expect people to take care of you,” she said. “I think those things are represented more from the Republican Party than the Democratic Party. It just seems like the Democratic Party wants to make you feel dependent on them all the time.” The idea that Trump is getting handouts from the government goes against the very core of perceived values. I think that people like this woman see a social contract: you work hard, you pay your share of taxes but those taxes shouldn’t be used for people who don’t work. There will always be a big divide between Republicans and Democrats on the question of how much aid to provide for the lower income families and individuals. However, I wonder if one of the reasons this resonates where so many other issues hasn’t is that Trump is breaking the contract where Mitt was just bending it. Highlighting the unfairness and that your tax money is going to subsidize his lavish lifestyle may sway this block of voters. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/58 "2016-10-04T21:52:14Z")
But Trump’s capital loss meant his actual fair share of taxes was much lower than almost anyone’s. Harping on it makes Hillary look stupid or disingenuous. I think you’re better off pointing out his severe disrespect to those killed or captured in war. To John McCain, to the Khans, and so on. We’ve had chicken hawks in the White House before, but mocking people who suffer in war is stupid. I hope she can at least show some sympathy to her own nation’s warfighters. Can she? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/59 "2016-10-04T22:16:04Z")
:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537/60 "2016-10-04T22:18:20Z")
Memo to **foolsguinea** : Bernie lost. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prioritize-the-trump-target/767537.md?page=4)