# Prison Rape **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 22, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982 "2011-07-22T14:02:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/21 "2011-07-22T15:39:01Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > I agree. However, people are getting sentenced to incarceration, not rape, a point that doesn’t seem to be getting across. It’s the United States, not Pakistan where people _do_ get sentenced to rape. Exactly. It seems like a slick way to get around the Constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/22 "2011-07-22T15:45:29Z")
Well, clearly it’s not _that_ unusual. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/23 "2011-07-22T16:17:00Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Oh, so we just slap them on the wrist and let them continue pillaging society at large? That’s worked out well for us so far, hasn’t it? No, the first thing we’d have to do is realize that the War On Some Drugs has been an abysmal failure and start reframing laws and penalties so that we’re no longer imprisoning people for _marijuana_ offenses, which constitute slightly more than half of all drug arrests, and have for more than a decade. Legalization will go a long way toward reducing our prison populations. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/24 "2011-07-22T16:23:04Z")
Let’s get a little perspective here. People are talking about rape being prevalent and all. According to the report that was cited in the OP, 95.6% of all prisoners said they had not been sexually victimized in any way. Compare the 4.4% of prisoners who have been sexually victimized to the 17.6% of all women who have been sexually victimized and the 3% of all men who have been sexually victimized. And let’s distinguish between rape and other types of sexual victimization. When people talk about prison rape, they’re thinking about Andy Dufresne getting raped by Bogs Diamond in the shower. But forcible rape is the least common type of sexual crime to occur in prison. Most sex crimes are consensual - a prisoner might be coerced into agreeing to or voluntarily offer sex in exchange for favors. But from a legal standpoint, all sexual acts are illegal and any sex between a prisoner and an employee is non-consensual. I’ll note that the majority of sexual victimization involving staff is “touching”. I’m well aware of these cases - it’s a common event for a prisoner to accuse a guard of fondling him during a pat frisk. Accusing a guard of being a homosexual is a routine form of harassment. I’ll point out that all of these accusations are investigated and documented. Any accusation of actual sex occurring automatically brings in outside police investigators. David42 suggested some things prisons should be doing. Pretty much all of them have already been done years ago. Prisons are all hooked up with cameras, the cameras are monitored by outside agencies, we do have all of the laws he suggested. The only thing we don’t do is allow people on the street to watch the cameras - because not surprisingly most prisoners do not want to have their lives turned into a reality show for the general public. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/25 "2011-07-22T16:27:26Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > No, the first thing we’d have to do is realize that the War On Some Drugs has been an abysmal failure and start reframing laws and penalties so that we’re no longer imprisoning people for _marijuana_ offenses, which constitute slightly more than half of all drug arrests, and have for more than a decade. Legalization will go a long way toward reducing our prison populations. That’s really more of a legal reform than a prison reform. Prisons have no say in who goes to prison. But I will point out that if your released every person in prison who was serving time just for marijuana possession, you wouldn’t even notice they were gone - it’s less than one percent. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/26 "2011-07-22T16:31:27Z")
It doesn’t take much thought to realize that most inmate-on-inmate rape would go unreported for reasons which are obvious, making the kinds of figures we’ve seen cited in this thread unreliable… To conclude on the basis of such figures that guards are responsible for most prison rapes is unsafe, to say the very least. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/27 "2011-07-22T16:32:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Who is going to be _watching_ all these cameras? Pay per view? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/28 "2011-07-22T16:38:03Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > It doesn’t take much thought to realize that most inmate-on-inmate rape would go unreported for reasons which are obvious, making the kinds of figures we’ve seen cited in this thread unreliable.. To conclude on the basis of such figures that guards are responsible for most prison rapes is unsafe, to say the very least. Again, the figures are based on a survey of prisoners, not compiled from reported assaults. They could of course still be unreliable, but there’s no real motive to lie. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/29 "2011-07-22T16:53:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Most sex crimes are consensual - a prisoner might be coerced into agreeing to or voluntarily offer sex in exchange for favors. If a prisoner is coerced, then by definition it is not consensual. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/30 "2011-07-22T16:55:01Z")
Something I’ve posted in the past. Prison is the worst possible place to commit a rape. One, you’re surrounded by guards. But even more relevant, you can’t leave the crime scene. Imagine somebody just held a knife to your throat and raped you. Imagine what you would want to do to your rapist if you had the chance. Now imagine you know exactly where your rapist lives and he can’t go anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/31 "2011-07-22T16:55:06Z")
> [@](#): > > If a prisoner is coerced, then by definition it is not consensual. Sure it is. The coercion itself may give rise to another criminal charge, but rape requires force or the threat of force. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/32 "2011-07-22T16:56:03Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Then there needs to be more effort to get the point across that it’s a much more prevalent problem than people think. Is the US unique in the prevalence of prison rape or is it very common in other (more civilized) countries? other “more civilized” countries don’t have as many blacks in prison. They also don’t have lots of whites incarcerated next to the blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/33 "2011-07-22T16:57:36Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > If a prisoner is coerced, then by definition it is not consensual. Coercion is not the same as force. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/34 "2011-07-22T16:59:16Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > other “more civilized” countries don’t have as many blacks in prison. They also don’t have lots of whites incarcerated next to the blacks. Uh… so what? In any case, that’s patently untrue. African-Americans make up 12% of the US prison population; Afro-Carribeans make up 11% of the UK prison population. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/35 "2011-07-22T16:59:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Again, the figures are based on a survey of prisoners, not compiled from reported assaults. They could of course still be unreliable, but there’s no real motive to lie. Except that prisoners have no reason to believe that any surveys they participate in will be kept private. Paranoia(justified, for the most part) might cause them to answer as they have. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/36 "2011-07-22T17:02:44Z")
Perhaps, but the NIS-2 is anonymous. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/37 "2011-07-22T17:14:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Perhaps, but the NIS-2 is anonymous. Inmates taking the computer survey would suspect they were being monitored by prison staff, and those taking the paper survey would have no reason to trust either those distributing the surveys or those picking them up. Prisoners expect no privacy rights-“We’re from the Government-Trust us” might not convince those in prison. ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/38 "2011-07-22T17:19:35Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I think an inmate would be a lot more likely to claim to have been raped by a guard than to snitch on another inmate. Exactly. I’ve worked with some people who’ve dealt with inmates (in the health care field), and they insist that the number of inmates who come in for sexual assault injuries and treatment far outweighs what’s reported. I wouldn’t doubt that the vast majority of sexual assault in prison is inmate-on-inmate, but they just don’t snitch. Stigma is a powerful tool of oppression. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/39 "2011-07-22T17:40:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Inmates taking the computer survey would suspect they were being monitored by prison staff, and those taking the paper survey would have no reason to trust either those distributing the surveys or those picking them up. Prisoners expect no privacy rights-“We’re from the Government-Trust us” might not convince those in prison. That’s a possible (though IMHO spurious) reason to believe the survey under-reports abuse by prison staff. What reason is there to believe it under-reports abuse by inmates? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982/40 "2011-07-22T18:05:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Except that prisoners have no reason to believe that any surveys they participate in will be kept private. Paranoia(justified, for the most part) might cause them to answer as they have. You can equally well make a plausible argument that prisoners who have been sexually victimized have more reason to participate in a voluntary study of the subject. So the participants are a self-selected group with a higher-than-average percentage of victims. And that would mean that the genuine percentage of sexual victims is lower than four percent. There’s no point in going back and forth on the issue. For the purposes of this thread, let’s assume the figures we have are accurate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-rape/589982.md?page=3)