# Prison Ships **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 7, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278 "2015-08-07T23:02:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Potestas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@Potestas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Potestas)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/1 "2015-08-07T23:02:47Z")
How viable would it be to overhaul a cargo ship and turn it into a prison where the prisoners are kept in cells in the cargo hold of the ship down below decks with some kind of LED screen set significantly behind an artificial window to provide light or a pastoral scene replicating day & night cycles? Would it be more expensive to have a cargo ship just docked in open ocean or cruising open ocean and docking at different ports only to refuel, etc? How would this possibly be done? Could it work? ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/2 "2015-08-07T23:05:24Z")
Who pays for it and why? ---
**Author:** ![Potestas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@Potestas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Potestas)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/3 "2015-08-07T23:07:15Z")
> [@campp](#): > > Who pays for it and why? Idk either private or public sector using funds allocated to corrections. The why is to combat overcrowding of prisons ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/4 "2015-08-07T23:07:39Z")
It would be very expensive. It would be more expensive than keeping prisoners on a island. Food would have to be brought out often. Water would be a problem, waste also a problem. Then getting the prison guards on and off. Ships crew would also be expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Potestas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@Potestas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Potestas)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/5 "2015-08-07T23:10:54Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > It would be very expensive. It would be more expensive than keeping prisoners on a island. Food would have to be brought out often. Water would be a problem, waste also a problem. Then getting the prison guards on and off. Ships crew would also be expensive. Couldn’t you combat that problem by having some kind of onboard desalination facility and above decks some kind of self sustaining hydroponic agricultural green space for food and nourishment needs? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/6 "2015-08-07T23:23:41Z")
> [@Potestas](#): > > Couldn’t you combat that problem by having some kind of onboard desalination facility and above decks some kind of self sustaining hydroponic agricultural green space for food and nourishment needs? If you are defining the problem from a cost perspective, no. It would still be cheaper to deliver fresh water and food than it would be to install and maintain such systems. ---
**Author:** ![moojja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@moojja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moojja)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/7 "2015-08-07T23:24:01Z")
> [@Potestas](#): > > Couldn’t you combat that problem by having some kind of onboard desalination facility and above decks some kind of self sustaining hydroponic agricultural green space for food and nourishment needs? Desalination facility is incredibly expensive, even for places suffering from drought, it tends to be cheaper to ship water over long distance than desalination. I don’t think it can be done a scale that would fit into a ship. If scientists in Biosphere can’t self sustaining enough hydroponic agricultural green space without going hungry on land, they won’t able to do it on a prison ship. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/8 "2015-08-07T23:28:10Z")
> [@Potestas](#): > > Couldn’t you combat that problem by having some kind of onboard desalination facility and above decks some kind of self sustaining hydroponic agricultural green space for food and nourishment needs? To make fresh water from salt water takes a lot of fuel. Water is never wasted aboard a ship. Bad boiler water becomes drinking water. And there is still the problem with waste. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/9 "2015-08-07T23:32:07Z")
Don’t forget the HVAC. ---
**Author:** ![Ornery\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/da6949/32.png) [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/10 "2015-08-08T00:14:01Z")
You’ve obviously never owned a boat. Look at it this way - everything that happens with a shore based prison also has to happen on the ship but everything on the ship will cost more. The cost of maintaining a ship vs the cost of maintaining a building is game over by itself. Whatever scheme you come up with supplying the ship with all the necessities will cost significantly more than a land based system, even if it’s exactly the same. As for the hydroponic food supply, consider that in best case subsistence farming, a family of four needs about 1.5 acres of land (if they don’t try to grown their own wheat for bread). If you look at the productivity numbers for open field farming of tomatoes vs hydroponics, the hydroponics are about 5 times more productive per unit of space, so you’re looking at 13,000 square feet of hydroponic garden for just 4 people. That’s a strip of deck 20 feet wide and 650 ft long - for just 4 people! You also have to consider that prisons are a very big business and if you could make money housing prisoners on ships, it would already be happening. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/11 "2015-08-08T00:29:16Z")
I’m not seeing the advantage of a prison ship over an actual land prison. What cost savings do you see? ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/12 "2015-08-08T00:44:22Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I’m not seeing the advantage of a prison ship over an actual land prison. What cost savings do you see? Presumably the cost savings would be on land. The US with its large prison population has plenty of cheap land suitable for building prisons on, so it’s not really a consideration here. ---
**Author:** ![Orson\_Carte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Orson\_Carte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orson_Carte)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/13 "2015-08-08T01:12:47Z")
Your idea is certainly not an original one. ‘Prison ships’ (often referred to as ‘prison hulks’) have been around for a very long time. During the 18th and 19th centuries hulks were extensively used to hold British prisoners awaiting transportation, principally to Australia (in slightly more seaworthy ships). Convicts, both men and women were normally held in leg irons and suffered depressingly bleak surroundings, without windows. There were certainly no video displays to break the monotony, although convicts were often taken out during the day, in irons, to perform hard-labour. Prison ships were also extensively used during the American War of Independence. More colonist Americans died as a result of incarceration on these ships (more than 11,000) than in every battle of the war, combined. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/14 "2015-08-08T03:10:19Z")
The only benefit I can think of is, escaping from an oceangoing vessel is not a particularly appealing proposition. Look at alcatraz, half a mile of water turns into a very effective barrier. Make that 10 miles offshore and you have a whole new nightmare. Thick concrete walls, layers of fences and guard towers, on a boat, all of that becomes irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/15 "2015-08-08T04:01:40Z")
It would make a hell of a dystopian movie though. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/16 "2015-08-08T07:56:51Z")
OP, do you mean something [like this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon_C._Bain_Correctional_Center) ? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/17 "2015-08-08T09:20:08Z")
I can see this happening in Singapore or Japan where all available land is already either cultivated, built on, national park or mountains. Why would it ever been needed in the US? There’s plenty of empty government land. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/18 "2015-08-08T09:26:34Z")
Prison ships were brought back for a while in the UK to ease overcrowding. Only one ship was used and its been closed now. Interestingly the ship involved, [HM Prison Weare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Weare) was bought from the City of New York which used it as a prison ship from 1988 to 1992. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/19 "2015-08-08T16:14:09Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > It would make a hell of a dystopian movie though. _Escape from Club Med_. Kurt Russell is already signed on, with the caveat that there are no sly _Captain Ron_ references in the script. He’s done other work, you know. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278/20 "2015-08-08T17:00:56Z")
> [@Potestas](#): > > Would it be more expensive to have a cargo ship just docked in open ocean or cruising open ocean and docking at different ports only to refuel, etc? Make it a container ship. It would be easy to stack new boxes one atop the other to house the ever-increasing prison population. Ships’ biscuit would make a comeback because the biscuit weevils would supply the protein. No need for desalination: The prisoners could drink each other’s urine. PBS could make a feel-good show on the first time in nearly two centuries the smell of a slave ship had returned to the open ocean. Part 2 would show the ship, “docked” in mid-ocean, being breached by waves the size of mountains in a hurricane and sinking, then warships a week later shooting at still-floating containers because the prisoners inside had escaped the ship. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prison-ships/727278.md?page=2)