Prison Ships

Well there have been people incarcerated in ships for ages, brigs (originally a word used to refer to a specific type of sailing ship) were so frequently used as prison ships that the terms became interchangeable. Overflow prisoners from the land have also been stored in ships from time to time. However, it’s never really due to a long term cost-effective benefit of doing so.

For the military, especially at points in the past, if you have need of transporting prisoners from where you’ve deployed them back to the homeland for long term punishment, you need a type of conveyance for this. While many ships will have places to lock a few people up, if you’re talking about a large military where you may have a lot of prisoners at place A and need them moved to place B, a military prison ship makes sense for practical reasons.

In cases of overflow, a prison ship also makes sense because it’s basically “already there.” And maybe it was being used for something else right before, or maybe it was a ship near mothball stage and you just slap some infrastructure in it to support chaining people up. It may work in a pinch, but it’s still a lot cheaper to eventually build a prison proper.

Well, another technical advantage of a prison hulk is that you can scrimp on guards. If the boat’s moored far enough away from the shore, or smack in the middle of some hellish marshlands (as the British used to do, way back when) then escapes becomes if not impossible at least very improbable. And thus you can get away with just a handful of heavily armed dudes to oversee food distribution and the like, leaving the inmates to fend for themselves the rest of the time.

Of course, you then perforce wind up with an “inmates running the asylum” situation where violence and abuse are rampant, shankings and rapes become daily occurrences (especially in ships that were not specifically built to be prisons and as such are chock full of secluded little nooks and crannies) and so on.
But that’s really a small price to pay for marginally lower taxes, isn’t it ? :slight_smile:

Alcatraz was closed for many of the same reasons mentioned above – it just cost too much to operate compared to non-island prisons. In particular, the state of California demanded that they provide a better sewage treatment system than the existing one (‘pump it into the bay’), and that would have been quite expensive.

maybe Australia would rent them some land to build their prisons Has one country ever housed another country’s prisons?

How does the average cost of keeping a prisoner compare with the cost price(not retail) per head for an ocean cruise, at the lower end of the market?

I think San Quentin originally started with a ship anchored in San Francisco bay and housing prisoners. A quick Google shows it was an old sailing ship named WABAN. So it’s been done.

Does Gitmo count?

Let’s see Mexican drug lord Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman try to tunnel out of a prison ship!
Just in case, have the ship encircled by sharks with frickin’ laser beams attached to their heads!

I think that the OP does not realise the scale of the operation of a prison.

Let’s get to numbers of bodies, US prisons are generally much larger than their UK counterpart but I will stay with the UK anyway.

You are looking at between 900-1500 prisoners. Add in around 400 staff.

Then add in the visitors who require reasonable access and facilities such as car parking - that’s going to be around 400-500 of whom maybe 100-200 might be present during day time.

The reality is that we need around 400 parking spaces.

So now we have to heat, water, air con, feed and supply electricity to around 2000 people at any given time.

This is extremely high density accommodation, and has high density services usage. This prison will likely require as much in services as perhaps 1000 to 2000 homes.

Actually this service usage is probably more than that, due to the fact that what we have is something between an industrial complex and a domestic setting.

So how are we going to manage an influx of 500 people in and out each and every day if we are on a ship offshore? transport costs would be immense. Its either by ship or by flight and both are extremely expensive.

If we have the prison ship alongside a jetty, access would still need to cater for vehicles right up to lorries.

How are we going to supply all that water, prisons use huge amounts of it.

How are we going to dispose of all that sewage? What about the garbage, I can personally attest that a prison will accumulate garbage of at least 3-4 tons a day - I know because I have to haul it. This is just ordinary garbage, we also have massive amounts of office equipment, loads of wood and metal - I mean by the tens of tons per month - I know because I have to haul it.

We have confidential waste that has to be security shredded, we also absolutely must have IT and internet access, its essential that we can communicate with the many other agencies involved in offender management, including other prisons, social welfare agencies, probation services, legal services.

We need to move prisoners to and from courts securely - how will we do this on a prison ship?

We also need radio nets, on ships radio systems are notorious for having dead spots - not a great idea when you need radios to summon and direct emergency assistance.
Fire fighting on ships is a real problem, there is no where to run and smoke can and will cause immense problems, whereas you can separate out buildings in a prison so that only one area is affected at a time in the vent of a fire - did I mention how common fires are in prisons? Well in your prison ship you are going to get at least 5 or so serious cell fires a year plus a couple fires in other locations. Fire is one of the biggest mass death risks in prison.
In a ship, who will fight the fire, because the fire brigade isn’t going to get there - that means you now need an additional number of staff on call - all trained up - that’s incredibly expensive - having done fire fighting using Breathing apparatus, the obstacles to implementing a fire fighting team that uses this types of equipment are considerable - not least the physical fitness of staff.

What are we going to do with all these ship borne prisoners during the day? We have to put them on exercise yards - its a legal requirement that prisoners are given a certain amount of cell release exercise time. Ships do not tend to have areas large enough for such a purpose.

We are also going to need a fence around all the upper decks, just like a shore based prison - we can’t have prisoners making escape attempts

Suring the day we need to put prisoners to work, or education or rehab courses. All these need facilities, from simple classrooms right through to full on industrial facilities for welding, woodmills, plastic injection moulding or the other hundred or so choice of occupations that are used to keep prisoners working - all those industrial facilities will need materials to be delivered and completed products to be removed.

That could easily mean 20 large lorries a day coming and going.

All this will need fuel, we have to move this ship, or we have to run generators, or we have to be alongside a jetty drawing power through vulnerable shore cables, and if this latter were chosen, we’d probably also connect to shore side steam supplies too.

This is just for starters, I have not covered other emergency services such as medical and yes we also need the police to attend for various reasons. There are a myriad of other functions and services that prisons have to be able to access, just think of a small town, all the goods it will import, all the money moving in and out all the communications to the rest of the world.

We did have one prison ship in the last 20 years called HMP Weare - this really was a last resort and a stopgap - it was not all that successful it cost too much to run and the regime was very limited in scope. Prisoners were very carefully selected - not much use for the general prisoner population.

Summary, it costs huge amounts more, yet it cannot provide the services and facilities that a modern prison facility requires - and is likely to consume a lot more resources than a land based facility.

I don’t know what the cost price of most cruises leaving Florida ports are, but retail prices are not substantially higher than the cost of housing prisoners. Security makes everything in prisons more expensive. It costs the Florida Department of Corrections $49.49 per day to house a prisoner,* or you can buy a 5 night cruise to Cozumel for $375.00 on Royal Carribbean (before taxes).

Of course, cruise costs are artificially reduced by using extremely cheap foreign labor and flagging the ships in Liberia or wherever, but the Florida Department of Corrections is massively understaffed and is one of the worst run prison systems in the US.

That number is probably misleadingly low, because most states only report capital and short-term costs in their corrections budgets, and leave out things like retiree costs, health costs and shared capital costs.

So now you have ADX Florence supermax prison.