# Prisoner of Azkaban **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 31, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977 "2004-05-31T23:58:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/81 "2004-06-06T20:56:17Z")
Frankly, I thought every single change and omission from the book was a good one, including the lack of Quidditch, which is boring and wasn’t very important in Book 3 anyway. The problem with the previous two books is that they were TOO close to a source material that’s extremely talky and episodic. Cuaron did what Chris Columbus doesn’t have the talent to do; he concentrated on just getting across the basic story and the essence of the source material, rather than being a slave to the exact wording. The scene in the Shrieking Shack wasn’t very good, but then it was terrible in the book. And like the book, the ending stretches on way too long. Unfortunately, that could not have been left out. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/82 "2004-06-06T22:23:10Z")
I did think the Hermonie “calling th werewolf” thing was dumb. It’s like the Leathal Weapon 2 scene that sets up the fact that Mel Gibson can get out of straightjackets: clumsy clumsy set-up. Not worthy of Rowling at all. However, I did like the werewolf, because it was something different from your conventional werewolf design. It was a geniuely scary transformation, to be sure. The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Lupin is indeed gay. Not because of the stupid record player, but because of his speech about Lily, and in general his whole bearing throughout the books. He’s a guy that has a life he has to keep secret for fear of being an outcast, in more ways than one: a guy who feels isolated with his difference until a group of friends show him that he’s a talented, great, and special dude. It may remain forever as subtext, but I think it fits far far better than with the theory of the ever-so irritating ship people who think that Lupin was in love with Lily. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/83 "2004-06-06T23:31:58Z")
I thought the omissions were justified and necessary. I _loved_ the look of the movie. It was clear that Cuaron had his own vision of the wizarding world, and while it didn’t square up exactly with my vision, I much preferred it to the design-by-committee feel that the first movie had. Interestingly, my sister-in-law noticed a lot of Day of the Dead imagery. She had no idea that the director was Mexican, but she said it explained some of the aesthetic to her. I also liked the awkward beginnings of romance/sexuality among the characters. It was handled quite well, and I’m glad it was included. These kids are 13, after all. It would be far more unrealistic if they weren’t feeling squirmy about each other. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/84 "2004-06-06T23:40:24Z")
quidditch was important in book three. it was oliver’s last year and he was very determined to win the house cup. the fall that harry took in the first match nearly upset oliver’s quest. i was rather surprised that it wasn’t mentioned. it does set up the need for a new keeper, that ron tries for. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/85 "2004-06-07T00:08:01Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > I am in agreement that it was way too fast-paced. I know you have a _lot_ of ground to cover and you don’t want the kiddies getting bored, but the movie ran about 2:20 and you could have put in an extra ten minutes’ worth of film and dialogue with no harm to the running time. I felt the Aunt Marge and Knight Bus scenes spent a little too much time on business, belaboring the “she’s getting bigger…and _bigger_” like something out of Monty Python, and the “look at the funny bus squeezing between the other buses” stuff, and then speeding up from Harry’s arrival at the inn onwards. > > You have a large ensemble of talented, appealing character actors who are allowed to deliver their lines and perform their bits of business in one or two scenes before the movie races away to the next scene. A number of scenes are meant to be powerful emotional moments for Harry: when Harry thinks he’s going to be expelled for using magic on Aunt Marge; the adults’ conversation in Hogsmeade about Sirius’s history with James; of course the whole Shrieking Shack scene; even the destruction of Harry’s broom – in the book, he’s devastated by this. > > The Shrieking Shack scene is a very talky _four chapters_ in the book, IIRC, and I wasn’t expecting to hear all of it. But this is a pivotal scene in which we have to get from “Sirius Black is a violent lunatic out to kill Harry” to “Sirius Black is a much-loved, loyal friend of the Potters’ who was cruelly betrayed and unjustly sent to prison.” By the end of it, Harry is thrilled by the possibility of going to live with his godfather. There is also the business of Lupin apparently switching sides when he embraces Sirius – not only is there the horrified, “I don’t _believe_ this!” moment for the kids, but the realization that _Lupin himself_ didn’t know the truth about his old friend all this time. David Thewlis has played a lot of bad guys, probably because of the way he looks; here again we get the possibility that, like Professor Quirrell, a trusted adult turns out to be a bad guy. Lupin helps pull us over to the understanding that this frightening stranger is really just a dear friend in trouble. > \ **a35362** has hit the nail on the head here, I think. The movie was missing a lot of the emotion that the book had and not entirely because of the actors’ limitations. Sadly, I think I was destined to be dissatisfied with this movie, as I’ve come to the conclusion that I wanted an adult movie out of a children’s book. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/86 "2004-06-07T00:12:55Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Lupin is indeed gay. Not because of the stupid record player, but because of his speech about Lily, and in general his whole bearing throughout the books. He’s a guy that has a life he has to keep secret for fear of being an outcast, in more ways than one: a guy who feels isolated with his difference until a group of friends show him that he’s a talented, great, and special dude. It may remain forever as subtext, but I think it fits far far better than with the theory of the ever-so irritating ship people who think that Lupin was in love with Lily. Maybe it’s just happenstance that the guy who played Lupin was slightly (somewhat? Decently? Iunno) effeminate, had an almost-lisp and that little moustache. Stereotype? Of course. However, there wasn’t exactly a lot of time to develop the idea, and I’m not sure it would have been fair to make a whole to-do in the movie about his sexuality, so maybe those bits were intentional, or maybe they weren’t. ::shrug:: ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/87 "2004-06-07T00:56:55Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > Maybe it’s just happenstance that the guy who played Lupin was slightly (somewhat? Decently? Iunno) effeminate, had an almost-lisp and that little moustache. Stereotype? Of course. However, there wasn’t exactly a lot of time to develop the idea, and I’m not sure it would have been fair to make a whole to-do in the movie about his sexuality, so maybe those bits were intentional, or maybe they weren’t. ::shrug:: I saw the whole bit as more of an allegory about accepting people who are diferent in unpopular ways. It would fit nicely with the increased presence of non-white students in this film as compared to the earlier installments. ---
**Author:** ![look\_hergo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85e7bf/32.png) [@look\_hergo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_hergo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/88 "2004-06-07T01:14:53Z")
“Sirius in animal form should be a big, powerful, beautiful Newfoundland, not a skinny black wolf.” _quote, a35362_ See, I had this same thought when I first saw his dog form. But then I realized – the poor guy’s been wasting away in Azkaban for 12 years; he’s not going to look his best. I accepted his skinny mongrel look, hoping that he’ll fill out a bit when he’s had some decent meals. His human form is pretty ratty right now, but in later books he’s described as a good-looking fella. Rowling even said in an interview that Sirius was the “sexy” one in his group. He’s been poorly kept. He’ll get better. And hopefully get some dental work done. ---
**Author:** ![celestina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/258eb7/32.png) [@celestina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celestina)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/89 "2004-06-07T01:37:11Z")
Regarding Lupin’s reserve, I don’t think it has anything to do with him being gay. I never got that impression from the book, and I didn’t get it from the film. I attribute his reserve to two things: 1. He’s a werewolf so he has to be extra careful about getting too close to folks because of the real possibility of hurting them when he changes. I think that would be devastating to the gentle, kind man Lupin is. I think that since in the book, as a child he’s a victim to a werewolf attack–that’s what’s turned him into a werewolf–he doesn’t want to repeat what happened to him. 2. Since he’s a teacher, it’s a matter of professionalism to maintain some distance from students. He doesn’t want to show too much partiality to any one student. And frankly, he’s not getting paid to be anyone’s friend/father. All that said, I _loved_ this movie. My favorite characters in the book were the settings for Hogwarts, the Lake, and the Leaky Cauldron. I didn’t like how rushed it was, but I loved how irreverent it was. The film doesn’t take itself or the book too seriously. It can poke fun at some of the horrible things that can happen right in front of you if you aren’t aware–e.g. the Whomping Willow smacking the shit out of the bird–even as it shows how necessary it is for Harry & Company to grow up and face difficult truths that somethings are not what they may appear to be. ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/90 "2004-06-07T01:50:39Z")
I don’t necessarily think they were trying to imply that Lupin was gay, but I wonder if they were trying to make lycanthropy sort of stand in for it - the sort of paranoia about it, the idea of “I don’t want one of _them_ teaching my child.” Just a thought. I preferred this to the first two - the feel was better, and the way it looked. The first two seemed in a lot of ways just to be trying to get as much plot and exposition out of the way as possible, and keep as much in and sort of just cram it all in as best they could. Yeah, they left out Quidditch, and Christmas, and all the rest of it, but they could never have fit it all in. Instead, they had lots of wonderful little scenes with the kids (not kids anymore!) interacting with one another - the scene when they get back to school, with the candy, and Draco’s little note to Harry in Potions. I liked that the teenagers got to be teenagers in this, rather than just little wizards scurrying from plot point to plot point. They felt like people, and I missed that in the first two. And I liked the first two, but as a movie, this was better. They should have explained Mooney, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs, though. That is important, and those four and the way they related to Snape at school makes a huge difference to the plot. It affects Harry’s relationship to Snape; it shouldn’t have been left out. Unfortunately, they didn’t give me final cut on the movie (can’t imagine why), so what’s done is done. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/91 "2004-06-07T01:56:18Z")
> [@look!ninjas](#): > > “I don’t want one of _them_ teaching my child.” Because he might eat their liver. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/92 "2004-06-07T02:09:20Z")
> [@look!ninjas](#): > > They should have explained Mooney, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs, though. What makes you think they won’t explain it in the Goblet of Fire movie? I’d bet dollars to donuts it’s covered there. ---
**Author:** ![Selkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Selkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Selkie)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/93 "2004-06-07T02:47:26Z")
> [@look!ninjas](#): > > I don’t necessarily think they were trying to imply that Lupin was gay, but I wonder if they were trying to make lycanthropy sort of stand in for it - the sort of paranoia about it, the idea of “I don’t want one of _them_ teaching my child.” Just a thought. FWIW, that was exactly the impression I took away from the film as well. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/94 "2004-06-07T02:58:52Z")
Count me in with those who liked the fast pace of the movie. And also liked the removal of all the things that would play terribly on screen, which include Quidditch and the classes. Most of the posters who were disappointed in not seeing these things in the movies appear to have liked them in the books. But Quidditch is the worst game ever invented: there is no point to it as written except catching the golden snitch, making all the previous parts of the games irrelevant. And classes always work better on paper. Rowling is a pleasant writer with a good imagination, but books three and four were badly done. She lost all sense of pacing, and started churning out reams of repetitive material. Everything in book four is done three times over, and I’m hoping against hope that the fourth movie will cut out almost every boring minute of the infinite number of Quidditch games that sullied the text. Taking the movie away from the constraints of representing an entire school year and giving it one single mostly timeless emotional arc was the best decision that Cuaron and Kloves could have made. And it also meant losing the wizard’s robes and turning the kids into real people rather than caricatures of British school life. Another huge plus. Buckbeak. I don’t remember a CGI effect that appeared as real and alive. By comparison all of LotR was like 50s horror movies. I liked the movie quite a bit. I was also amazed at how much more mature it seemed next to the kids movies that comprised the trailers. Something like Sleepover looked positively puerile by comparison. HPIII was the best laserjet printer ever made. And now it’s a children’s movie that adults can watch with pleasure. Both are rare and wonderful accomplishments. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/95 "2004-06-07T03:10:01Z")
I liked it, liked it a lot. The first two I saw in the theater once, and bought the disks. This one I’ll see again before it leaves, and _definitely_ buy the disk. I read the book a bit after it came out and intended to read it again last month (Rowling’s story tend to evaporate in my mind) but **DesertRoomie** had lent it out (grumble), so I remembered what happened only in the broadest strokes. In fact I had totally forgotten about . . . The Scabbers/Peter Pettigrew thing You can add me to the “King of the world” camp. When the first Dementor appeared I whispered to **DR** “That’d give a Nazgul the willies.” The hippogriff was magnificent, the werewolf okay (a good human/wolf mismash) and the lupine unimpressive. Like **a35362** I think it should have been a _big_ wolf. One small bit I noticed during the credits: When it got to the Industrial Light and Magic credits, the little footprints changed for a few seconds to paw prints. DD ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/96 "2004-06-07T03:25:36Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Rowling is a pleasant writer with a good imagination, but books three and four were badly done. It appears to me that like Ellis Peters and Elizabeth Peters, she has worn out a wonderful idea; it has become your basic English mystery with fixed characters and villians. I’m also getting a bit tired of the shild as protagonist theme, but I guess we can’t get around that until they go to graduate school. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/97 "2004-06-07T03:38:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m hoping against hope that the fourth movie will cut out almost every boring minute of the infinite number of Quidditch games that sullied the text. The only Quidditch in Book 4 is at the World Cup. That’s one game, not infinate games. I agree that Book 4 was too long, though I only ever thought that the first time through: later read throughs I’ve appreciated all the extra detail and the slower pacing. Book 3 though, was definately the best, not a down note at all. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/98 "2004-06-07T03:44:31Z")
Again, I don’t think the gay thing is a big deal, just a possible thematic subtext. It certainly makes more sense than the “Lupin loves Lily” theories the mugglenet kids are in a tizzy about now over his little speach about how Lily was very understanding. It’s just that… I’ve heard that exact same speech delivered in that same way by gay people about straight friends who helped them recognize their sexuality and get through the hard times it placed on them socially. So it rung a bell. And it fits Lupin’s character allegorically as well. I don’t expect it to ever become a major issue talked about in the books, but I think that Rowling certainly wouldn’t hesitate to have a place for a gay character in her story if there was a place for it. And Lupin is certainly a reasonable place. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/99 "2004-06-07T04:05:24Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] The only Quidditch in Book 4 is at the World Cup. That’s one game, not infinate games. [QUOTE] If you say so. I admit the book is a blur. Book one was by far the best, and by book four I think Rowling had beaten the damn thing into the ground. A school year is a good framing device, but it’s a bore to live through. I hear that book five is more coherent, though I haven’t read it. And I’ve never seen Titanic, but even I thought “King of the World.” ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2004, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977/100 "2004-06-07T04:08:39Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Everything in book four is done three times over, and I’m hoping against hope that the fourth movie will cut out almost every boring minute of the infinite number of Quidditch games that sullied the text. Hell, I loved 'em. But then I’d enjoy playing it and I enjoyed watching it, so I guess we’ll just have to have our differences;) I think things like Quidditch can provide a respite from the intense drama that can exist in movies, but I’m not sure HP4 will be that sort of movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/prisoner-of-azkaban/247977.md?page=6)