I don’t agree; I believe there is a cost premium on the Prius and other hybrid vehicles. I think it’s especially obvious in the case of vehicles like the Camry that are available in hybrid and conventional models.
I have a Honda Fit. Its base model starts at $15,425 and the price goes up to $19,790. The Prius C starts at $19,080 and goes up to $23,360.
Having driven a Prius, I didn’t like not being able to open the rear windows while driving on the highway. There was an **intensely loud **reverberation effect when trying to do so. It felt like my ears were going to fall off. I don’t know at what speed it starts to happen, it was a friend’s vehicle. I’m also not sure exactly what this effect is called. It’s possible to use the a/c instead, but on a nice day I’d rather drive with the windows down. 
That would be annoying. My Prius doesn’t do this.
It is not years but miles. The Prius and Focus were pretty much the same size car I lost about of foot of cargo length but can still carry home 2x4s so no problem. The cost of the Prius was about $2500 more for the features I got in the Prius. At my 20k per year the payback has already happened over the Focus. I only got 23-24 mpg with my Focus and they weren’t much better in 2010. (Actually I think in 2010 the Focus was temporarily out of production). Here is another factor though, I was refueling 3 times every 2 weeks, a minor but cumulative pain in the ass. I now refill 1 every week and a half. This adds up over the year.
The 13 years part is just wrong on every count as it is all about the miles.
Well no answer yet to my asking if the op was interested in plug-ins as well. His region, Pacific NW, is very well suited for them. Moderate temperatures are the best possible world for battery power. Very hot decreases the lifetime of the battery and very cold decreases the range on battery power. The region also has electricity generation that is carbon friendly. Oregon, for example (unclear which Pacific NW state the op lives in) is 80% hydroelectric and renewable generation. Similar numbers for Washington. Coal hardly used in either state.
The plug-in Prius does not give you too many miles of grid-derived power a day, but it is some. The Energi line (e.g. the C-Max) gives you 20 something, higher in Summer, less in Winter (but offset relative to the Prius by its slightly diminished mpg when run in hybrid mode) and the Volt gives near 40. If you are thinking about a plug-in EV you may want to think about right sizing the battery to your usual daily commute. Frequent longer trips and the Volt makes little sense with its smaller tank and need for premium but frequent daily commutes of about 35 to 40 and it makes more sense than the others. No need for long road trips and a pure EV could be a very good option.
FWIW other than the decrease in EV only range in Winter I love my C-Max Energi. Very quiet, very comfortable, and a great car to drive. I love the torque. It’s fun. Yes the My Ford Touch is quirky but the gps is great and the sound system is fantastic.
If your daily commute could be covered by the range of a plug-in EV it is seriously worth considering. In the C-Max I figured the premium for the Energi over the regular hybrid was for me a bit less than 5 years. I own cars for over 10. If you only commute a pure EV is worth putting in the mix.
Interesting. It was an earlier model (not sure what year). Maybe they rectified this issue in later years?
And oh, I found out it’s called **buffeting **and is an issue with a lot of aerodynamic cars. I’ve driven a big Ford sedan, an old tiny RX-7, and a Grand Am and I’ve never heard it in any of those.
The Motor Trendcomparison of the C-Max (not Energi) and the Prius V:
Not comparing the plug-ins of course. Here’s a Motor Week comparison for that:
The after tax credit price (assuming you qualify) puts the C-Max Energi a bit less than the Prius plug-in.
http://www.moneyeconomics.com/calculators-and-tools/the-hybrid-vehicle-break-even-calculator/
Of course it is the miles, but there is an average # of miles that most americans drive in any given year. Per the link above, it would take 240,000 miles in a Honda Civic hybrid vs. the normal Honda civic for you to break even.
ETA: that was using $4.31 / gallon of gas. With gas nearing $3.00 / gallon, that number of miles is now even greater.
I have an '05 Prius with 120K miles and I love it. It seats five as long as none of them are giant. For those with small children, it will only accommodate two car seats. As I’m sure you already know, replacing the hybrid battery is very expensive (about $4k). Usually the battery lasts for well over 100K miles, but they have a shorter lifespan in hot climates.
Well firstly, they mixed up the prices on the normal Honda. An easy mistake to make, since Honda for some reason has insisted on sticking with the confusing convention where the the “LX” (which must stand for luxury, right?) is the cheapo entry level one and the “EX” (economy?) is the snazzier one. The EX is actually about $21k. The hybrid comes with all the same stuff as the EX but it has a touchscreen display, which you can only get with the navigation package on the EX, as well as some snazzy stuff like adaptive cruise control.
Also, adding $100 per 12,000 miles for maintenance is completely unreasonable. The battery is the only thing even remotely likely to incur more expense versus a normal car and they very rarely fail. The hybrid also saves wear and tear on brakes.
I think the closest apples-to-apples comparison you can do is the EX w/navigation versus the hybrid w/navigation, which is $22,300 and $25,800 respectively. According to your calculator, that gives a break-even point of about 100k miles (without the maintenance cheat). At 12k per year that’s a little over 8 years which is well within first owner range for most cars these days.
My Prius has had no additional maintenance costs - I change the oil and the filters like on an ordinary car and I changed brakes and tires once. It certainly hasn’t cost me an extra $100 per 12k miles. I also average 50 mpg on mine - I’ll get as low as 44 in the deep Winter, but I can get 55 in the Summer. I’ve owned it four years and 50k miles.
Prius does have an upcharge on oil. It takes 0W20 synthetic oil which increases the price of oil changes significantly if you do not do your own and I no longer do.
I didn’t notice a change in cost between my Jetta and my Prius. An oil change at the dealer is $50. Was $50 on the Jetta, is $50 - five years later, on the Prius.
FWIW my C-Max Energi will tell me when I need to change the oil. It may be up to 2 years or 20,000 miles. I’m closing in on 15K and 1 year with several long road trips and it has not lit up yet. I might do it at 1 year even if it does not tell me to. No upcharged oil required although my old Civic hybrid (now over 10 years old and 110K and being used by my eldest in CA) did require the expensive synthetic stuff, the 0W-20, which they charge something like $30 more for. Not sure why my plug-in does not advise it; the idea is that the thinner oil performs better when an engine is cold as a warmed engine lowers the viscosity of the regular stuff and the hybrids are using the engine less so spending more time with cooler engines. There were no other increased costs. The spared brake pads on cars with regen should mean less maintanence costs in addition to the fewer oil changes. (Makes sense as the engine is used less and the electric motor wears very little.) Although brake pads should last near 60K anyway so max is probably saving one set over a 200K lifetime
Apologies - lost my post.
I’m in the Seattle area
Would consider an EV but have range anxiety, and on the other hand find the $7500 tax credit also interesting.
I live about 7 miles from where I work, and also drop off one of my girls at her new school more or less on the way to work. (I used to commute on an ebike but that blows in the rainy winter, and now I take my daughter to school in the morning and the bike is pretty much only good in the summer now).
I’ve ridden in a lot of Prius’s back seats. Many taxi’s and shuttles.
I’m thinking the Prius is a pretty good car for a first time driver. Can’t do any of the wild teen shit I used to do in Prius. Let me know if you think otherwise. So, this could be a good car for my eldest in a few years.
I’ve heard that when looking at the TCO, you’ve got to factor in a lot less wear and tear DSeid beng a case in point. Use the engine less so it needs less upkeep. And anecdotal evidence (talking to Prius taxi drivers mainly) of 200k and even 300k+ miles on the original battery and no major work on the vehicle. Heck, at the rate I drive, this could be the last car I own if it goes 300k. 
DSied - how many miles do you get in the EV mode? I’ve got a hilly 15 mile round trip - would this work for me?
In reality, MB drivers (up here, anyway) are not aggressive drivers. I routinely out-accelerate them, pass them, and beat them to offramps in my Prius. And I still get decent mileage.
But since the Prius is all about high MPG, you will drive it differently. For some years, I tried to get the highest MPG I could out of my Jeep Cherokee. The SO punches it because she likes the 4.0 l six-cylinder power compared to her Tacoma 4-banger. I get better mileage. I don’t drive the Jeep like I drove the Porsche 911SC. I drive the Prius like I drive the Jeep (in my milk the gas for as much as I can mode), but more aggressively and faster. But there is still a style difference. Accelerate quickly (but not aggressively) and ‘feather’ the accelerator and keep an eye on the consumption bar.
Ah, hell. I’m tired and not making sense. Basically: A Prius is quite capable of beating other cars, because most people don’t drive their cars to the cars’ capabilities. And even beating other cars, you’ll adjust your driving style.
My range in EV only varies with temperature - typically 24 to 25 in Summer but in Winter it could be as low as 12 or even refusing to run in all EV because it forces the ICE on to run the defroster. I’m at 18 now in the high 30s. Your milder temperature ranges would likely result in staying on the higher end. (The Volt goes farther in EV.) Hilly 15 should be handled all EV unless it is cold. There are features that help maximize regen with hills - see “grade assist”.
No it doesn’t. It comes from the factory with regular 5w30 oil. Switching to synthetic 0w20 is popular among the hyper-miler types trying to shave off fractions of MPG’s, but it’s not necessary. When they first came out, a lot of dealers tried to do hybrid surcharges and stuff like that, but in reality there’s nothing special about the gas engine. You could even get the oil changed at Jiffy Lube (if you must).
ETA: The newer ones may call for 5w20 (like all of Toyota’s cars now) but that’s still a regular conventional oil.
For me, Focus was around $30 and Prius is around $60.
Yep, mine lists synthetic 0w20. Not a preference, the actual manual listing. It is worth noting. Maybe the 2014s don’t, that would be an improvement.
Oh, okay, so I was a little confused there. I thought Toyota had switched over to 5w20 fleet-wide, but I guess it was really 0w20! But at any rate, those expensive oil changes are a Toyota thing, not a hybrid thing. The Corolla takes 0w20 too now and before 2010 the Prius just took regular old 5w30.
I would strongly suspect you’d be fine with 5w30 or 5w20 too. The Prius coincidentally had an update in 2010 but other Toyota models changed from 5w30 to 0w20 recommended with no apparent mechanical changes. Sounds to me like some sort of marketing decision instead of a technical one.