# Private emails , Ivanka version
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [November 20, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843 "2018-11-20T11:24:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/61 "2018-11-24T19:03:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> The only policy that’s relevant to a Secretary of State is the precedents set by previous Secretaries of State, and whatever directives the President gives. So the policy you’re asking me for is: Powell and Rice both did the same thing. Unless you can cite President Obama telling her not to use a private server, that’s the _only_ relevant policy.
So you think the non-partisan Inspector General of the State Department, as well as the Obama appointed CIO and Assistant Secretary of Diplomatic Security were just confused about State Department policy on email usage? And fortunately, you are more expert in government oversight, IT, and cyber security than they are. Thank goodness you are here to step in and let us know that those officials were all wrong! Plus, your extensive cites make your case so much more compelling!
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/62 "2018-11-24T19:18:03Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#):
>
> When was the last time you read your IT policy? When was the last time you changed your passwords? Have you ever installed a program on your work computer without permission even if that was via a browser plugin?
By the way, the answers are:
1. I have mandatory annual training on IT security. It’s either once or twice a year, I forget.
2. I have one system that I’m forced to change passwords about every 90 days. The other system we just started mandatory password changes, I think it’s about once a year.
3. Ironically enough, the one thing that I installed without permission that immediately pops to mind is a password manager.
All of this is aside from the fundamental fact that I have never done anything quite so patently stupid as conducting official business on any kind of personal email. Plus I can think of a time or two where I intervened with my superiors to get them to avoid some rather egregious IT errors that could have had catastrophic consequences if an adversary managed to exploit the vulnerabilities. Those were not pleasant conversations to have, basically saying, “No, boss, you can’t do what you want to do because this IT expert over here knows more than you or I about the subject, and he is very worried.”
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### Author:  [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/63 "2018-11-25T04:17:52Z")
> [@Kimera757](#):
>
> I hadn’t heard that last part.
The State Department’s email was hacked by the Russians in 2014.
Cite: [https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/10/politics/state-department-hack-worst-ever/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/10/politics/state-department-hack-worst-ever/index.html)
It may be true that this occurred after Clinton left her position as SoS, but it speaks to the insecurity of their official email system.
I believe people are discounting the level of security of her personal system. It was set up for Bill’s use - an ex-President. She used it during her ‘08 run for the presidency. I suspect it had a very high level of security.
I also suspect that really sensitive materials were likely handled using far more secure, and traditional, methods (diplomatic pouches delivered by courier; those tents they set up to avoid being monitored) than email.
As for Ivanka - sure, it’s worth questioning what she may have been transmitting using unofficial or unsanctioned methods. But - unless we find out that she was selling state secrets (a distinct possibility) - I doubt there is anything “there” there. Still, let’s have her testify to Congress, just to be sure.
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/64 "2018-11-25T04:45:20Z")
> [@Moriarty](#):
>
> I believe people are discounting the level of security of her personal system. It was set up for Bill’s use - an ex-President. She used it during her ‘08 run for the presidency. I suspect it had a very high level of security.
While nobody has any information to show that the server was hacked - as much as some right-wingers think otherwise - a brief look at the Wikipedia page on the scandal should disabuse you of the notion that pros were running the server.
> **[Hillary Clinton email controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy)**
>
> During her tenure as United States Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton drew controversy by using a private email server for official public communications rather than using official State Department email accounts maintained on federal servers. After a years-long FBI investigation, it was determined that Clinton's server did not contain any information or emails that were clearly marked classified. Federal agencies did, however, retrospectively determine that 100 emails contained information...
It appears to me that she was just lucky that nobody penetrated it. I assume that if the Russians did, they would have given everything to WikiLeaks, as they did with Podesta’s emails.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/65 "2018-11-25T05:57:22Z")
If they had come across an e-mail with HRC describing Bernie as a crazy-ass Commie Jew with a weed-whacker haircut, it would have been on my FB feed in an hour.
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### Author:  [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/66 "2018-11-25T06:11:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> The only policy that’s relevant to a Secretary of State is the precedents set by previous Secretaries of State, and whatever directives the President gives. So the policy you’re asking me for is: Powell and Rice both did the same thing. Unless you can cite President Obama telling her not to use a private server, that’s the _only_ relevant policy.
That would be past practice, not policy. Both policy and practice are relevant, but they are different.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/67 "2018-11-25T13:40:14Z")
You don’t need a pro to manage a secure server. You just need someone with enough Google-fu to be able to find the security solutions that actually work, and who is aware enough of their limitations that they don’t try to improve on them. And ultimately, the proof of the pudding is in the eating: Criticisms will often point to the many hacking attempts on the server, but of course there were attempts. But there’s no evidence that any of the hacks were successful, and every reason to believe that we would know if any had been.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/68 "2018-11-25T19:08:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> You don’t need a pro to manage a secure server. You just need someone with enough Google-fu to be able to find the security solutions that actually work, and who is aware enough of their limitations that they don’t try to improve on them. And ultimately, the proof of the pudding is in the eating: Criticisms will often point to the many hacking attempts on the server, but of course there were attempts. But there’s no evidence that any of the hacks were successful, and every reason to believe that we would know if any had been.
This, exactly. Just make sure that the patching automatically occurs, and the server will be secure. And install a hundred-dollar SonicWall firewall in front of the server, and it will be practically invulnerable from outside hacking. It’s been my experience that most servers (and networks) are compromised because somebody clicked on a malware link embedded within a well-disguised email. There’s no indication that this happened to Clinton’s server. The ‘leaked’ emails came from a laptop which had downloaded those emails, not from the server.
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/69 "2018-11-25T19:56:50Z")
Yeah, try putting me in charge of a server and let’s see how well that works out for everyone.
ETA: and as far as “the proof is in the pudding” comment, let’s all remember that the Ghost Ship didn’t burn down until it did; then everyone couldn’t stop talking about what a hazard it was. The proof was in the pudding, until it wasn’t.
> **[Ghost Ship warehouse fire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire)**
>
> The Ghost Ship warehouse fire was a fire that occurred in a former warehouse in the Fruitvale neighborhood of Oakland, California, that had been converted into an artist collective with living spaces. The fire occurred on December 2, 2016, at approximately 11:20 p.m. PST. At the time, the warehouse was hosting a concert featuring artists from the house music record label 100% Silk. The warehouse was only zoned for industrial purposes and residential and entertainment uses were illegal.\[ Of the...
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/70 "2018-11-25T21:09:12Z")
The analogy would be apt if, for years before the Ghost Ship fire, there were people repeatedly dousing it in gasoline and throwing matches at it. Russian hackers, with the resources of one of the most powerful governments in the world behind them, spent years attacking all of the other e-mail systems connected with Hillary Clinton, and got into all of them except her personal one. It’s beyond belief that they didn’t attempt to attack that one, too, or that they would have failed to leak what they found if they had succeeded. When the most skilled hackers in the world, with virtually unlimited resources available, try for years to attack a system and still fail, that seems to me to be the very definition of secure.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/71 "2018-11-25T21:22:10Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> I can hear the “lock her up” chants now at the Trump rallies. 😃
>
> [https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/19/politics/ivanka-trump-personal-email-account/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/19/politics/ivanka-trump-personal-email-account/index.html)
You hope the Republican response will be “oh, we demanded Hillary locked up, so we’ll demand the same for Ivanka, otherwise our outrage would seem transparently insincere and situational.”
The actual Republican response will be “oh, you’re angry about Ivanka’s emails, but you didn’t care about Hillary’s emails.”
You will then clarify “I don’t give a shit about Ivanka’s emails, I’m calling out your double standard on emails between Ivanka and Hillary.”
The response will then be “What about your double standard between [some completely different thing probably involving Bill Clinton]”.
There’s no hope. Conservatism is the Scientology of politics. They’re beyond rational engagement.
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/72 "2018-11-25T21:36:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> The analogy would be apt if, for years before the Ghost Ship fire, there were people repeatedly dousing it in gasoline and throwing matches at it. Russian hackers, with the resources of one of the most powerful governments in the world behind them, spent years attacking all of the other e-mail systems connected with Hillary Clinton, and got into all of them except her personal one. It’s beyond belief that they didn’t attempt to attack that one, too, or that they would have failed to leak what they found if they had succeeded. When the most skilled hackers in the world, with virtually unlimited resources available, try for years to attack a system and still fail, that seems to me to be the very definition of secure.
It’s a weird debate when a person maintains that their conjecture is more reliable than expert analysis.
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### Author:  [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/73 "2018-11-25T21:41:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> It’s a weird debate when a person maintains that their conjecture is more reliable than expert analysis.
What genuinely-expert analysis contradicts what Chronos said?
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/74 "2018-11-25T22:12:32Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#):
>
> What genuinely-expert analysis contradicts what Chronos said?
I think I’ve had my fill of a debate that consists of me citing everything, and **Chronos** citing nothing, especially when requested to do so.
So I’ll respond to your otherwise-reasonable request by saying that OF COURSE I’m right! It’s NOT PLAUSIBLE to say I’m not! You know, what **Chronos** has been saying in his last many posts
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/75 "2018-11-25T23:05:22Z")
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> I think I’ve had my fill of a debate that consists of me citing everything, and **Chronos** citing nothing, especially when requested to do so.
>
> So I’ll respond to your otherwise-reasonable request by saying that OF COURSE I’m right! It’s NOT PLAUSIBLE to say I’m not! You know, what **Chronos** has been saying in his last many posts
I don’t know if this a cite you’re looking for, but the [FBI says there was no evidence that Hillary’s email server was ever hacked.](https://www.apnews.com/380b995c9fd94e03b09e6c0fcacf1023)
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/76 "2018-11-26T01:57:52Z")
> [@Railer13](#):
>
> I don’t know if this a cite you’re looking for, but the [FBI says there was no evidence that Hillary’s email server was ever hacked.](https://www.apnews.com/380b995c9fd94e03b09e6c0fcacf1023)
Yes, I’ve already talked about that.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/77 "2018-11-26T02:00:05Z")
You know how you make a convincing argument that something can be done? You do it. If all these experts think it’s so easy to hack Clinton’s server, then let’s see them do so.
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/78 "2018-11-26T02:21:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> You know how you make a convincing argument that something can be done? You do it. If all these experts think it’s so easy to hack Clinton’s server, then let’s see them do so.
Are they supposed to invent their own time machine too? Or are you lending them yours?
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### Author:  [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/79 "2018-11-26T12:57:12Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#):
>
> I agree, but those are some pretty bad optics. Frames nicely the portrait of Ivanka as hypocritical, entitled, and unqualified.
Could this be the break the Clinton campaign has been waiting for?
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [November 26, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-emails-ivanka-version/824843/80 "2018-11-26T13:46:51Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> I can hear the “lock her up” chants now at the Trump rallies. 😃
>
> [https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/19/politics/ivanka-trump-personal-email-account/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/19/politics/ivanka-trump-personal-email-account/index.html)
Silly rabbit, laws are for democrats.
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