# Private prisons and the three strikes rule - a replacement for Jim Crow or pure conspiracy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 25, 2014, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-prisons-and-the-three-strikes-rule-a-replacement-for-jim-crow-or-pure-conspiracy/705558 "2014-11-25T04:26:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-prisons-and-the-three-strikes-rule-a-replacement-for-jim-crow-or-pure-conspiracy/705558/81 "2014-11-27T13:20:26Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s not been “debunked”, you just keep claiming it’s false. That’s not the same thing. It’s unsupported. It’s just from a blog post. No statistics, unlike the 6 and 9 numbers. Why would anyone use such a number as if it’s useful? Do you really believe unsupported assertions that are just from some guy’s blog are good and usable data? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-prisons-and-the-three-strikes-rule-a-replacement-for-jim-crow-or-pure-conspiracy/705558/82 "2014-11-27T13:39:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s unsupported. It’s just from a blog post. No statistics, unlike the 6 and 9 numbers. Why would anyone use such a number as if it’s useful? Do you really believe unsupported assertions that are just from some guy’s blog are good and usable data? I don’t really care, we’re not arguing about the provenance of the data but the accuracy of the analysis. I’m going to assume from your changing of the subject that you concede that accuracy. Not that it was an unsupported figure, of course, the source was cited in the blog. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-prisons-and-the-three-strikes-rule-a-replacement-for-jim-crow-or-pure-conspiracy/705558/83 "2014-11-27T14:23:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I don’t really care, we’re not arguing about the provenance of the data but the accuracy of the analysis. I’m going to assume from your changing of the subject that you concede that accuracy. No, I’m just learning a lot by reading the posts of the real statistics gurus. > [@](#): > > Not that it was an unsupported figure, of course, the source was cited in the blog. A broken link is not a “source”. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-prisons-and-the-three-strikes-rule-a-replacement-for-jim-crow-or-pure-conspiracy/705558/84 "2014-11-27T18:51:16Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > The criminal justice system is not unbiased, the law is not unbiased, and it tarnishes our societal quest for equality. Our criminal justice system and law are biased because of its territorial monopoly privilege. If the people of Ferguson would have chosen protection services in an unhampered market, they would have likely chosen a force that A) is mindful that an unfavorable swing in opinion would result in bankruptcy and B) was focused on protection of bodily and property rights. As it is Ferguson had a monopoly provider of “protective” services. This is characterized by a force that: A) sees no threat to its power and status as provider of services from the community it oversees (an intentional use of the word). In fact, the reaction to its incompetency has likely caused a great financial windfall to most officers on the force in the form of increased overtime due to protests. B) is focused on dominating the population psychologically. “Our societal quest for equality” is a disturbing phrase. Please take a step back. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-prisons-and-the-three-strikes-rule-a-replacement-for-jim-crow-or-pure-conspiracy/705558/85 "2014-11-27T20:57:00Z")
**WillFarnaby** , if you want to launch one more libertarian crusade, open a new thread to do it. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-prisons-and-the-three-strikes-rule-a-replacement-for-jim-crow-or-pure-conspiracy/705558/86 "2014-11-28T08:18:01Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You’re arguing something entirely different from what I’m arguing. > > I’m not talking about how often young black men get shot per minute, or per encounter with the police, but over their lifetime. > > To try to use your analogy and the actual figures we’ve been using… The claim is that black basketball players are being penalised for fouling 21 times more often than white ones over their career. But people watching the games independently see that black players are committing between 6 and 14 times more fouls per match, regardless of the official’s decision. > > The question is, is the difference because of racism? My claim is no, because black players play at least twice as often as white ones, so whilst they only commit 6-14x more fouls per match, over their career they will commit at least 12-28x more fouls. > > To go back to the original issue, there is no claim that young black men are 21x more likely to be shot per encounter with the police, but a claim that they are 21x more likely to be shot by the police overall. I agree with **iiandyiiii**. You are double counting. If blacks commit 6 times more fouls per match than whites, then over their careers they will commit 6 times more fouls than whites. Suppose 1000 matches in a career. A black player has 6000 fouls, a white player, 1000: a 6 to 1 ratio. The fact that they have double the playing time is already accounted for in the 6 times per match rate. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-prisons-and-the-three-strikes-rule-a-replacement-for-jim-crow-or-pure-conspiracy/705558/87 "2014-11-28T08:34:39Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I agree with **iiandyiiii**. You are double counting. If blacks commit 6 times more fouls per match than whites, then over their careers they will commit 6 times more fouls than whites. Suppose 1000 matches in a career. A black player has 6000 fouls, a white player, 1000: a 6 to 1 ratio. > > The fact that they have double the playing time is already accounted for in the 6 times per match rate. I was assuming by “double playing time” he meant “played twice as many matches”. I don’t follow basketball, so I may have misunderstood the analogy. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-prisons-and-the-three-strikes-rule-a-replacement-for-jim-crow-or-pure-conspiracy/705558/88 "2014-11-28T15:07:58Z")
I don’t think a secret cabal of America’s top leaders plans long-term evil schemes in whispers over golf. What happens is much more vague and insidious. War industry didn’t show up at the White House with a truckful of cash and say “We need another stupid war, Mr. President. If you can blunder and turn a 2-year war into an 8-year war, that would be especially great!” Instead Presidents start their foolish wars and “law and order” programs for reasons other than direct graft. BUT, American politics are greased by money. As ideas are floated through Congress, pros and cons are debated but the influence of money inexorably makes itself felt. As, for example, the drug decriminalisation debate has its ups and downs, powerful or moneyed interests have the edge. Small changes at the margins add up, with no need for special conspiracy. Private prisons are probably a good example. A clear majority of Americans oppose the idea, yet the industry grows. The [abuses by private prisons](https://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/private-prisons) are [scandalous](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pz3syET3DY). But so what? _People_ care, but corporations are what matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/private-prisons-and-the-three-strikes-rule-a-replacement-for-jim-crow-or-pure-conspiracy/705558.md?page=4)