# Privatization, Anthrax, and You
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [October 21, 2001, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733 "2001-10-21T20:29:19Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Trucido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trucido)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2001, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/1 "2001-10-21T20:29:19Z")
So, we don’t have a good producer of anthrax vaccine. This wasn’t a problem approximately 40 days ago, was it? Do you want to hazard a guess as to why we don’t have a reliable producer of anthrax vaccine? Well, see, there’s this company called Bioport, and the government decided that Bioport, being the nice folks they are, would produce anthrax vaccine for us, just out of the goodness of their heart. So the state-owned lab is sold to Bioport, likely for a fraction of its actual value. Well, apparently the folks at Bioport are world-class, gold-medal incompetents. Syphilitic chimpanzees with severe frontal lobe damage are apparently more likely to produce viable vaccine than these people. Why, Bioport, why? “Well, shucks, we don’t know. We’re just in it for the money. We figger we kin git the federales to keep givin’ us cash as long as we wander around like we couldn’t find our own ass with both hands. Producin’ vaccine ain’t profitable, y’see.” We’re now left with one SUPREMELY MOTHERFUCKING INCOMPETENT PRIVATE PRODUCER to supply a vaccine that our armed forces now DEFINITELY NEED, and might COME IN HANDY AT SOME POINT FOR ELEMENTS OF THE CIVILIAN POPULATION. I hope the ‘invisible hand’ bitchslaps Bioport’s board of directors, because this animate assortment of biological waste definitely is not serving the public interest in any way.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2001, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/2 "2001-10-21T20:51:36Z")
Oh, shut up. Not only do you have no idea what you’re talking about, you have no idea loudly, rudely, and ignorantly. You think bureaucrats somehow magically care more than people who actually live and work in the community?
Dickwad.
You obviously are hopeless, but anyone else interested in how this actually came about can look at BioPort’s [own site](http://www.bioport.com/default.asp). Once there, click the link to their January, 2001 report to the Lansing Economic Club from their Chief Scientific Officer, Robert C. Myers. BioPort has been trying to wake people up to the threat of Anthrax terrorism since way before September 11.
Dipshit.
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### Author:  [@Trucido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trucido)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2001, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/3 "2001-10-21T21:28:02Z")
I’m not seeing that link there, **Libertarian**. I believe I did find the document you were talking about, though. Dr. (of Veterinary Medicine, no less) Myers doesn’t offer a single word about why Bioport can’t seem to meet FDA requirements to manufacture the vaccine. So, the question still stands, why isn’t Bioport manufacturing vaccine? If I understand it, they’ve haven’t made any vaccine since they purchased the company in '98. You obviously expect me to take Myer’s word on something, but I can’t exactly see what.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2001, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/4 "2001-10-21T21:56:17Z")
From BioPort’s website:
> [@](#):
>
> Under the current contract, the Department of Defense pays just $4.36 per dose of anthrax vaccine. The military’s own calculations indicate the cost to manufacture the vaccine is about $15 per dose.
This sounds like exactly the sort of company the DoD should be working with ☹
Perhaps it’s time to privitize the CDC as well ?
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2001, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/5 "2001-10-21T23:26:33Z")
One of the reasons they are not manufacturing it is because it is simply not profitable. Anthrax does not pose a serious enough threat to the population at large to warrant mass production of the vaccine. The last case of inhalation Anthrax in the US before the events of late was in 1976, according to some dude on NBC news.
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### Author:  [@Trucido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trucido)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2001, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/6 "2001-10-22T00:09:13Z")
Well, **friedo** , they (Bioport) have a license to manufacture it, one that they bought up along with the Lansing Laboratory, but they haven’t done what they need to do to satisfy FDA inspectors.
That’s nothing, **Squink**. I can sell you vaccine I don’t have for $1.50 a dose. They can’t tell you the price for vaccine yet, because they aren’t making any. I bet price cuts are easy when you skimp on quality control and effectiveness.
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2001, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/7 "2001-10-22T00:32:33Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Trucido \*
> \*\*Well, **friedo** , they (Bioport) have a license to manufacture it, one that they bought up along with the Lansing Laboratory, but they haven’t done what they need to do to satisfy FDA inspectors.
Yeah, _because it is not profitable to do so_. What’s so hard about this?
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### Author:  [@choosybeggar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choosybeggar)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2001, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/8 "2001-10-22T00:34:02Z")
This is an excerpt from [a letter](http://www.bioport.com/PressReleases/BioPort/PR12.htm) to Stars and Stripes from Bioport answering criticism by Meryl Nass, anthrax vaccine critic.
> [@](#):
>
> Fiction: Dr. Nass claims that the FDA ignored the anthrax vaccine production facilities during inspections of the company’s manufacturing operations. She further claims the FDA forced BioPort to close its anthrax vaccine manufacturing facilities until a renovation could be completed.
>
> Fact: The anthrax vaccine manufacturing facilities alone have been inspected a minimum of 12 times in the years following licensure. Our entire facility has been inspected nearly 50 times during this period. Further, the FDA did not force BioPort to close its facility and rebuild. _The decision to renovate the anthrax vaccine manufacturing facility was made by the State of Michigan, which owned the facility at the time. The renovation had been planned for some time before January 1998, when it was initiated. Currently, BioPort is working toward FDA approval of the renovated facility._
I was previously under the impression that vaccine production was halted due to incompetence at BioPort. It’s been almost 3 years since the renovation was initiated, though. What’s taking so long?
I wouldn’t rush to blame BioPort, though. Until 9/11, little market for this product existed. If you were their CEO, would you have made the Anthrax vaccine a top priority?
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2001, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/9 "2001-10-22T00:34:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I bet price cuts are easy when you skimp on quality control and effectiveness.
Yes, apparently they massively underestimated the costs of taking the lab private, as well as the costs of producing their less exotic vaccines. Under more normal circumstances the Feds would probably have gotten around to bailing them out eventually. In the current crisis, they’ll just be rescued from their own incompetence a little sooner than expected.
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### Author:  [@Trucido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trucido)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2001, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/10 "2001-10-22T00:49:32Z")
**friedo** , they bought the Lansing laboratory thinking they could make it profitable and still less expensive than a state-run lab. In the process they’ve denied the US a reliable producer of anthrax vaccine. I’m citing this as an example of privatization failing. Where, exactly, are we disagreeing?
**Choosybeggar** , there was a rather large market for anthrax vaccine prior to 9/11: the US military. They’re still planning on eventually vaccinating all troops, as far as I can remember. I’m also deeply suspicious of Bioport’s claims, and I will be until they can actually pass an inspection and produce vaccine.
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### Author:  [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2001, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/11 "2001-10-22T01:09:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> One of the reasons they are not manufacturing it is because it is simply not profitable.
If it’s not profitable, then maybe it should never have been privatized in the first place. Having a bunch of soldiers sitting around, eating the government’s food and burning the government’s fuel and putting wear and tear on the governnment’s expensive tanks and airplanes and ships ain’t profitable either. I don’t think most police departments turn a profit either. (At any rate, they _shouldn’t_–asset forfeiture laws give me the heebie-jeebies.)
See, we have this institution in our society which is in charge of doing things that don’t turn a profit, but have to be done anyway, because they are _necessary_ and because they may save all our asses from death and destruction down the road. That institution is called _government_, AKA “the state”.
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### Author:  [@choosybeggar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choosybeggar)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2001, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/12 "2001-10-22T04:07:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Trucido \*
> \*\*
>
> _Choosybeggar_, there was a rather large market for anthrax vaccine prior to 9/11: the US military. They’re still planning on eventually vaccinating all troops, as far as I can remember. I’m also deeply suspicious of Bioport’s claims, and I will be until they can actually pass an inspection and produce vaccine. \*\*
Agreed that the US military represents a large market. What is the current level of vaccination within the military? Has the loss of production lead to soldiers who would otherwise be vaccinated remaining succeptible to anthrax? If so, hasn’t the military’s silence on this issue also contributed to the situation? Perhaps, the military has enough vaccine stock for now and therefore wasn’t pushing hard for the resumption of production.
Otherwise, it’s difficult to imagine the military sitting around, vulnerable, but patiently awaiting vaccine production to resume.
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### Author:  [@Trucido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trucido)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2001, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/13 "2001-10-22T04:37:11Z")
And a big, shiny gold star to **MEBuckner** , for stating the case so nicely. Just try selling that to **Libertarian**. I’d be interested to hear his take on the matter, without resort to Bioport’s own corporate propaganda.
**Choosybeggar** , [this](http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,47410,00.html) article claims that the military wants 14 million doses, and Bioport has provided half a million, apparently produced before they took over the facility. 13.5 million doses isn’t the best of markets, but it’s a market, and Bioport sought it specifically.
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### Author:  [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2001, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/14 "2001-10-22T05:58:04Z")
> [@](#):
>
> You think bureaucrats somehow magically care more than people who actually live and work in the community?
I sure as hell do. Reality check. People “who actually live and work in the community” have absolutely NO accountability to that community. The one thing business has to do is **make money** somehow. They care jack shit about people except as it relates to that single mission. On the other hand, your bureaucrats damn well better pay attention to the demands of the people, else they won’t stay bureaucrats for long.
Sure, in your anarchist fairy-tales, businesses would be socially-responsible and people would voluntarily support community services and privatization would be the cure to all ills. But in the real world, it’s up to The Big Bad Government to make sure that community services get done and that people and businesses -must- observe at least some basic social decency. If these things weren’t strictly enforced…surprise!..they wouldn’t happen at all, and we’ll be right back to going at each other’s throats just like any third-world hellhole.
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### Author:  [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2001, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/15 "2001-10-22T06:12:01Z")
Doesn’t the US have some kind of “orphan drugs” scheme whereby the goverment pays companies (and gives them exclusive license to market) unprofitable drugs?
They certainly had such a policy when AZT started to become financially viable, and I would think that it would apply to vaccines as much as to other pharmaceuticals.
BTW, does the same company produce the anthrax vaccine for livestock?
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### Author:  [@choosybeggar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choosybeggar)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2001, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privatization-anthrax-and-you/88733/16 "2001-10-22T16:52:25Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by reprise \*
> \*\*
> BTW, does the same company produce the anthrax vaccine for livestock? \*\*
I can’t find the name of the company that manufactures the livestock vaccine, but I’m positive it’s not BioPort.
It’s actually an entirely different formulation from the human vaccine. The human vaccine uses a cell-free preparation whereas the livestock vaccine uses a live, acapsular (attenuated) anthrax variant.
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by Trucidio_
> **Choosybeggar, this article claims that the military wants 14 million doses, and Bioport has provided half a million, apparently produced before they took over the facility. 13.5 million doses isn’t the best of markets, but it’s a market, and Bioport sought it specifically.**
Isn’t this indicative of complacency by the military as well?