# Privileging religious whiners **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850 "2018-09-06T01:41:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/41 "2018-09-06T23:16:02Z")
Someone’s got his magic underwear on too tight. Loosen them up a bit and you’ll feel a lot better! ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/42 "2018-09-06T23:33:41Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Neither of our personal childhood experiences are relevant here. The point is that it’s only from a comfortable privileged position that one could possibly make the patronizing claim that religious fundamentalists and militant atheists are equally annoying. If you’re an LGBT person growing up in the Bible Belt or living in many Christian African countries or many Muslim countries, where religious piety is the vector for propagating bigotry, I doubt that you’re really too concerned about how annoying vocal atheists can be. No. It is only you, right now, who annoys me. You don’t share their experiences, either. You can sympathize, empathize, and advocate. You do NOT know what it is to be gay in Christian Africa or a Muslim country. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/43 "2018-09-07T00:05:17Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > No. There are such things as ‘good’ ideas. Notably different in that simple regard from religion. Other than that little quibble I don’t see much wrong with the OP. Religion _was_ a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/44 "2018-09-07T00:22:18Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > You don’t share their experiences, either. You can sympathize, empathize, and advocate. You do NOT know what it is to be gay in Christian Africa or a Muslim country. So what? Are you suggesting that it’s a _virtue_ to ignore the suffering of others if you haven’t experienced it yourself? I was responding to this: > [@Scumpup](#): > > …There’s an incredible raft of shit in which I do not believe. **In day to day life, this has no impact on me whatsoever.** …Evangelical atheists are just as annoying as evangelical believers. You can afford that patronizing “evangelical atheists are just as annoying” attitude only because you have the privilege to live in a secular society where your social niche is largely free from persecution. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/45 "2018-09-07T00:23:49Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Religion _was_ a good idea. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/46 "2018-09-07T00:27:04Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Religion _was_ a good idea. I could get behind “Spirituality” is a good idea, because hey it gives one a sense of deep meaning to life and some measure of comfort. I’m totes on board with spirituality. But it starts going south when you try to get someone else on board with your gut feelings about the universe (religion) at the expense of a little bit of their own opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/47 "2018-09-07T01:44:48Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So what? Are you suggesting that it’s a _virtue_ to ignore the suffering of others if you haven’t experienced it yourself? > > I was responding to this: > > You can afford that patronizing “evangelical atheists are just as annoying” attitude only because you have the privilege to live in a secular society where your social niche is largely free from persecution. Dude, _you_ live in a society where your social niche is largely free from persecution. In this society, we are down to obsessing over whether bakers must make cakes for same-sex weddings. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/48 "2018-09-07T02:16:53Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Dude, _you_ live in a society where your social niche is largely free from persecution. You keep repeating this as though it’s a disputed point. Stipulated that we both live in a similar society, and we are both reasonably free from persecution. But of the two of us lucky enough to be in this privileged position, only _you_ are making the claim that > [@Scumpup](#): > > Evangelical atheists are just as annoying as evangelical believers. I’m sure you’ll continue to willfully avoid my _actual_ point: that the many LGBT people around the world who still _are_ suffering persecution from religions extremists might not share your supercilious desire to tone police the atheists who are just too strident in their criticism of religious privilege. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/49 "2018-09-07T03:40:25Z")
Tone policing is the idea that you are wrong because of your tone. It does not mean you cannot object to certain rhetorical tactics. I am a Christian myself. But I am willing to join you about religious privilege. No religion or lack thereof should be privileged above another. But if you also attack me and my beliefs, then you lose me as an ally. Furthermore, hateful proselytizing is as convincing to Christians as it is to atheists. It’s not a good idea. Neither is using the same level of “arguments” that evangelicals use. I consider those who do either of these things to be “evangelical atheists,” and I do not think they help your cause or our mutual cause at all. I join with you on true freedom of religion, which includes your right to not believe. I agree that religion is not an excuse to break the law. I don’t join with those who wish to belittle those who are religious. I do not agree with those who treat religion as this inherent great evil. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/50 "2018-09-07T13:23:06Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > … [the sanity waterline is dangerously low](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/XqmjdBKa4ZaXJtNmf/raising-the-sanity-waterline). What a phenomenally stupid article. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/51 "2018-09-07T13:24:15Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > What a phenomenally stupid article. What a phenomenally meaningless retort. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/52 "2018-09-07T13:30:10Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I’ve been an atheist some 44 years or so now. Since I was about 12, anyway. I believe in no gods, no afterlife, nor in anything supernatural. You know, though, I don’t consider atheism the defining facet of my whole life that many non-believers I encounter on the web seem to do. In addition to not believing in any gods, I also don’t believe in the Tooth Fairy or Santa Clause or that people get picked up by space aliens for purposes of bum-probing. There’s an incredible raft of shit in which I do not believe. In day to day life, this has no impact on me whatsoever. It’s enough for me that I don’t believe. If other people do, well, that’s their lookout. If they begin to bore me or attempt to convert me, it’s easy enough to politely change the subject. Evangelical atheists are just as annoying as evangelical believers. Wow, a reasoned, rational and tolerant view of your own beliefs and their overall importance in the grand scheme. Treasonous behaviour at the Straight Dope. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/53 "2018-09-07T13:36:03Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > What a phenomenally stupid article. Well, you do have an intimate understanding of phenomenal stupidity, guess I’d better take your word for it. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/54 "2018-09-07T13:46:27Z")
Aren’t you the fucking witty one. Sorry, let me try again. I know you are but what am I? Did you read the fucking thing? Nope, didn’t think so. Spout off with no foundation or shame. Typical really. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/55 "2018-09-07T13:49:18Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > What a phenomenally meaningless retort. Not retort, criticism. How is it meaningless? Grammar and syntax are good, word choice clearly conveys the idea. Please do tell me how it is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/56 "2018-09-07T13:49:28Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The argument against your patronizing attitude is not a “who had it harder” dispute, it’s that you occupy a privileged “I’m all right, Jack” position. The compelling reason to push back against the privilege of religious views is not to make yourself look smarter, it’s to oppose active ongoing harm. You do realize Church of the Sub Genius was a parody religion, right? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/57 "2018-09-07T13:54:45Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > I was going to ask if CoSG hadn’t nudged out Discordianism. It certainly developed later. Discordianism wasn’t nudged out, because it identified itself as the opposite of religion. All its holy texts were unholy, there was no link between god and man, and those who spread the word of Discordianism were actually converting those who listened to Discordian priests, because that’s the defining tenet of Discordianism: advocating that it’s anti-religion. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/58 "2018-09-07T14:06:31Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The argument against your patronizing attitude is not a “who had it harder” dispute, it’s that you occupy a privileged “I’m all right, Jack” position. The compelling reason to push back against the privilege of religious views is not to make yourself look smarter, it’s to oppose active ongoing harm. Serious question. Tomorrow it is undeniably 100% proven to everyone’s satisfaction that there is no God. What do you think changes that is of any importance? Do you think the anti-gay people will suddenly embrace tolerance. Do you suppose that anti-semites will love their Judaic bretheren? Do you think pedophiles and molesters will stop seeking out jobs with maximum exposure and minimum risk? What substantive benefit do you believe society will derive from the utter end of religion? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/59 "2018-09-07T15:08:06Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Serious question. Tomorrow it is undeniably 100% proven to everyone’s satisfaction that there is no God. What do you think changes that is of any importance? For starters, the catholic church (among numerous other religious groups) probably has to stop hiding and protecting pedophile priests. Without the clout of “we are a direct pathway to the one true god”, their actions look a lot less forgivable (and far more obviously worth cracking down on legally). In fact, this is a very common trend. For example: > [@](#): > > Do you think the anti-gay people will suddenly embrace tolerance. Maybe not! But they lose their strongest weapon against the target of their ire. In _every_ gay rights case, it has been “protect the rights of LGBT from discrimination” vs. “protect the rights of Christians to discriminate”. Take away the religious justification, and what’s left? “I hate gay people because…” Strip away religion, and you’ll find that for many people, there _is_ no “because”, and even for those remaining, that “because” loses most of its intellectual (and all of its legal) pull when it’s not appealing to religious freedom. Once you lose that clout, that ability to appeal to “but my religion says”, what’s left is _far_ less potent. But okay, let’s discount the cases where appealing to a religion explicitly grants a person legal and social power in ways other rationalizations wouldn’t. What’s left? Answer: _every harmful tenet of religion._ [ul] [li]JWs would have no more reason to shun people who leave their cult[/li][li]Religious families would have no reason to expel atheist family members[/li][li]Muslims and Jews could enjoy a goddamn baconator[/li][/ul] And so on and so forth. There are countless religious rules and laws that make _no fucking sense whatsoever_ without the religion. Things that are simply nonsensical. And things which are _really harmful_. JW beliefs about blood. Christian Scientist beliefs about medicine. Snake handler beliefs about… Crap, I forgot, gimme a moment, it’ll come to me… And while I’m sure you’d still have plenty of non-sectarian violence in the middle east, you _cannot_ tell me that it would be so easy to recruit suicide bombers if they didn’t think they had god on their side. Shall I continue? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850/60 "2018-09-07T15:12:08Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Aren’t you the fucking witty one. Sorry, let me try again. > > I know you are but what am I? > > Did you read the fucking thing? Nope, didn’t think so. Spout off with no foundation or shame. Typical really. Sweetie, you’re the one who replied to the link with “it’s dum!” without any actual, yanno, substance. If that’s the level you start on, why should I bother with depth? But here, let me kiss your ass to make you feel better: Golly, **Zeke** , what is it about that piece that you find so “phenomenally stupid?” I’m interested in your opinion! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/privileging-religious-whiners/820850.md?page=4)