# Pro bono bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132 "2010-09-09T02:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/61 "2010-09-09T11:17:04Z")
Doesn’t the free enterprise system take care of **RR** ’s problem? You object to a principle at work, you voice your objection, the firm says, “Tough titty,” you quit, you get a job at a firm that doesn’t do pro bono work. I don’t get **RR** ’s complaint. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/62 "2010-09-09T11:19:28Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Oh gawd, I’m feeling sick because I actually AGREE with Mr R **Rover** in this instance. It’s akin to corporations forcing you to donate to groups like **United Way** ‘for the good of the companies reputation’. Both practices I find really dodgy. > > However, that being said, lawyers know from the time that they graduate from uni that _some_ of their work is going to be _difficult_, to say the least. Actually, lawyers know from the time they graduate (well before then, actually) that a certain amount of pro bono work is a standard feature of the profession. That makes this case fundamentally different from what you correctly describe as dodgy practices of donation armtwisting and the like. The OP is rather like a doctor complaining that he can’t stand the sight of blood. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/63 "2010-09-09T11:27:22Z")
I, for one, am really surprised that pro bono work is not mentioned in his employment contract. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/64 "2010-09-09T11:56:02Z")
What kind of pro bono work does a misanthropic tax lawyer do? Helping non-profit entities with tax issues, I hope. Because I think I speak for whatever poor bastard would be stuck with you as a lawyer on a civil rights case when I say thanks, but no thanks. Working outside your field requires more than a little humility, and I just can’t see **Rand** learning the law of section 2254 to draft a state habeas petition, sorting out Eleventh Amendment immunity for state prosecutor’s offices, or the like. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/65 "2010-09-09T11:59:47Z")
Come on people, please don’t be so stupid. This is **Rand Rover** doing his usual “I’m not trolling” bullshit. He’s trying to stir you all up and he’s succeeded. Opening a thread saying “I’m a well paid lawyer who is pissed about doing a minor amount of free work to the lazy assed poor whom I hate”. Well done, boyo. Hook, line and sinker! ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/66 "2010-09-09T12:07:56Z")
Why does **Rand Rover** hate U2? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/67 "2010-09-09T12:08:16Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Come on people, please don’t be so stupid. > > This is **Rand Rover** doing his usual “I’m not trolling” bullshit. He’s trying to stir you all up and he’s succeeded. Opening a thread saying “I’m a well paid lawyer who is pissed about doing a minor amount of free work to the lazy assed poor whom I hate”. > > Well done, boyo. Hook, line and sinker! Something along the lines of “I want everyone to know who I am, but I can’t think of much I can contribute to the conversations, so I’ll just try to be the biggest asshole there. They’ll _all_ be talking about me then!” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/68 "2010-09-09T12:14:23Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Is there any obstacle to replacing lawyers with software programs? Because then they’d sue for self-liberation. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/69 "2010-09-09T12:18:51Z")
> [@leander](#): > > This is **Rand Rover** doing his usual “I’m not trolling” bullshit. He’s trying to stir you all up and he’s succeeded. Opening a thread saying “I’m a well paid lawyer who is pissed about doing a minor amount of free work to the lazy assed poor whom I hate”. Yeah, there’s something tap, tap, tapping under that bridge. But let’s do the math, here. Twenty hours a year works out to, what, 4 minutes a day or so? Considering how much of his employer’s time \*\*Rand \*\*spends on the SDMB trying to rile up us socialists, he could make about one fewer post per day and use that time for his pro bono, and \*still \*come out ahead. **Rand** , You’re clearly being screwed. The parasites are taking advantage of you. You should quit- that’ll teach 'em! ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/70 "2010-09-09T13:08:14Z")
No no, you misunderstood. They want you to work Pro _Boner_. Yea that’s what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/71 "2010-09-09T13:35:29Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > And I didn’t agree to do pro bono work when I signed up for my firm. > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > So **one of the senior partners** in my section sent around an email today reminding everyone of **the firm’s goal** of having every lawyer work 20 pro bono hours each year. > > When the two voices in your head are finished fighting it out, get back to us and tell us which side you came down on. Where’s the contradiction there, smart guy? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/72 "2010-09-09T13:43:35Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Finders, minders, and grinders. > > Randy is a grinder who is truly clueless as to how a firm gains a reputation and attracts clients. He’ll never become a finder, and therefore never rise to the top. He’s just meat from which the firm takes its cut. > > If he had the intelligence, experience and balls that he thinks he has, he would have cut loose from the herd and put together his own firm, but not having what it takes, he simply sits there, grinding out billable hours each day for the benefit of those who provide him his clients, nothing more than the legal equivalent of a bum boy, complaing that his ass hurts when he is told to bend over. Buddy, I don’t work at Dick and Bob’s law shack like you apparently do. My firm has over 1000 lawyers. Our gross billing and PPP would make your head spin. If I were to start my own firm, I would essentially be switching practice areas, because the type of work I do is only done in firms luike this. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/73 "2010-09-09T13:50:53Z")
Also, a lot of you are missing the point. Doing pro bono work is not a requirement. It’s just one of those things like thge United Way drive where everyone gets a sad face next to their name until they do it, then they get a happy face. That’s annoying and manipulative. I almost wish it were a requirement because then I would just fold it into “stuff I have to do for work” and not consider it time away from my family. As it is, I’m not required to do it, I don’t want to do it, so I’m not going to do it. I think the goal is more geared toward associates anyway. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/74 "2010-09-09T13:53:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Buddy, I don’t work at Dick and Bob’s law shack like you apparently do. My firm has over 1000 lawyers. Our gross billing and PPP would make your head spin. If I were to start my own firm, I would essentially be switching practice areas, because the type of work I do is only done in firms luike this. Now you’re reduced to bragging about how big your employer is? So you really are a little fish in a really big pond. ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/75 "2010-09-09T13:59:52Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, a lot of you are missing the point. Doing pro bono work is not a requirement. It’s just one of those things like thge United Way drive where everyone gets a sad face next to their name until they do it, then they get a happy face. That’s annoying and manipulative. > > I almost wish it were a requirement because then I would just fold it into “stuff I have to do for work” and not consider it time away from my family. As it is, I’m not required to do it, I don’t want to do it, so I’m not going to do it. I think the goal is more geared toward associates anyway. So you aren’t required to do it…you don’t want to do it.. and aren’t going to do it. Great. So…don’t? 2 options: 1. Quit the firm and join a firm that does not institute leftist practices which you despise so much. 2. Don’t do it (which you’ve clearly decided is the course of action). So…why bitch about it? Do you complain just for the sake of it? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/76 "2010-09-09T14:01:55Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > > > I’m much less concerned with the bullshit at your law firm than I am about the fact that no one sees anything wrong about a borderline-sociopathic ideologue like yourself having any part in the raising of a two-year-old. Can we expect an impassioned diatribe against the child labor laws a few years down the pike? > > Can you lay out the specific facts that lead you to believe I am a “borderline-sociopathic ideologue”? Thanking you in advance. Your posts are his cite. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/77 "2010-09-09T14:05:29Z")
Does Pro Bono work have any guidelines? A lawyer I know was in a situation similar to **RR** ’s, so he did some work (wills and corp set ups) for a few relatives he wouldn’t have charged anyway. ---
**Author:** ![blanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@blanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blanx)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/78 "2010-09-09T14:08:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, a lot of you are missing the point. Doing pro bono work is not a requirement. It’s just one of those things like thge United Way drive where everyone gets a sad face next to their name until they do it, then they get a happy face. That’s annoying and manipulative. > > I almost wish it were a requirement because then I would just fold it into “stuff I have to do for work” and not consider it time away from my family. As it is, I’m not required to do it, I don’t want to do it, so I’m not going to do it. I think the goal is more geared toward associates anyway. I’m also a lawyer, in a big firm. I’m politically diametrically opposed to **Rand Rover**. But he’s right about this. Big firm pro bono work in a big firm is bullshit. It’s a way to generate a gold star, and it is the United Way. Legitimate pro bono work is a different thing- do you really want me to half-ass an area of law I know nothing about? I don’t. Let me either donate to a pro bono cause I believe in, or do something I believe in. Lip service in anything sucks. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/79 "2010-09-09T14:09:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I didn’t agree to do pro bono work when I signed up for my firm. You mean it wasn’t ever explicitly brought up that there was a “goal”, or that they would reflect upon you favorably, to do Pro Bono - right? I mean, “everybody does it” is no contractual obligation, but as many others I had been under the impression \*some \*Pro Bono work was considered a usual and customary paying-of-dues aspect of the profession that went without mentioning. I seem to get from your latest post that you are not so much ticked at the practice itself, as at the senior partner feeling he had to make coughing noises in some of the staff’s general direction? I’m chilly towards employer-pressured charity, and generally opposed to the notion that being a “team player” means you are compelled to give away free overtime on demand; but you must have known you were going into a field where there’s pressure to donate at least a nominal amount of your work. Though I must agree with **blanx** that if done, it should be for something the lawyer actually cares about. Really, you have just said yourself that since it’s just a “goal” rather than a mandate you can, go ahead and ignore it and so what if that means they look sad at you. But I thought you creative drivers weren’t supposed to care for the opinions of others. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132/80 "2010-09-09T14:12:05Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > A lawyer I know was in a situation similar to **RR** ’s, so he did some work (wills and corp set ups) for a few relatives he wouldn’t have charged anyway. You seriously think that Mr. Rover doesn’t charge his relatives top dollar for that kind of stuff? Shame on you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pro-bono-bullshit/553132.md?page=5)